Condos vs. chocolate in West-end land use fight
September 29, 2012 - 11:42am — Irmina
From cbc.ca:
Should condos be allowed beside the Nestle chocolate factory in Toronto’s west end?
Land use issues in the area are causing conflicts between developers and the chocolate factory that’s been there for decades.
Click link for video report:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/09/27/toronto-nestle-co...
The Toronto Star: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1263582--condos-and-the-chocolat...
Comments
Planning Department Wants To Save Blacksmiths Shops
Not really but it sure feels that way. Recently the Globe and Mail had a story about how people and companies are moving back to the city.
"The demographic is expected to grow as Toronto’s downtown intensifies and planners concentrate on creating “live, play, work” communities." (Not ward 18 planners!)
This seems at odds with the recent rejection of Castlepoint's mixed used proposal. In fact the Castlepoint plan seems to exactly mirror what the article says the city needs. Recent reports by Cushman & Wakefield and Colliers International show that mixed use live and work (often without a car) is where the City is heading as it intensifies and matures. This information has been presented to the City and frankly it is old hat.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/why-corporations-are-flockin...
Junction Triangle went through this before starting in 1980 when factories left and all this land sat unused for decades under the false impression that somehow industry was going to return. The effect on the community was devastating as instead of renewal with mixed use we were stuck with empty fields for 3 decades folks. And it was this same misguided fear of loosing jobs that allowed the City to "grandfather" Solways Metals in 1981, a decision that saved a few jobs but had a harmful impact on the community and is now seen as a huge mistake.
And now we have a proposal that will bring jobs and residents to a part of JT that could really use some new life but it just doesnt seem to register. Social engineering by the Planning Department has a spotty record in this ward and maybe they should give it a rest and listen to what the market and the people are saying. The year is 2012, not 1980.
Globe Sterling Story
Surprisingly well done story by Marcus Gee in the Globe. Funny that the Star is apoplectic on this issue since it was the Star in 1979 that wanted industry in our area to shut down because of pollution and noise. : )
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/cities-change-governments-jo...
(Wonder why he wont do the same kind of research on Metrolinx?)
So - is that it - no Castlepoint Development because of Nestle?
I heard it was turned down - that they will likely appeal - but what does that appeal process look like? How can this happen 3 years into it? Talk about fortuitous timing for Nestle with the Mr. Christie plant closure in the news. I really don't think this would have been turned down if that other plant wasn't in the news, slated for closure. Too bad - that would have been some real, good, community development.
I agree fully, The timing of
I agree fully,
The timing of the two factory issues, (which are unique and not the same) compounded by the labour unions getting involved, the media feeding frenzy and it get into the hands of some elected officials at city hall, banking constituents for a rainy day while smiling for the camera I might add, scoring points trumps good planning and community building.
This is one of those occasions where appeal to the OMB is the only way to get a truly objective perspective, without the political gaming of our city councillors, and the OMB ought to take a "bigger picture" view which would benefit us, the local residents, our community building and make proper use of that well situated location getting so much taxpayer-funded infrastructure.
It's ironic that city planning oppose the conversion of this employment land, because they want to hold on to light industry, yet their own reports have proven in or near the city core, when those lands are converted to well planned, denser mixed-uses, they not only replace the jobs once their but far exceed them with in-demand jobs of today.
Times have changed and hopefully the powers that be at OMB recognize this evolution, and support Castle Point proposal, they have my support.
Kori
Sterling Lofts at City Planning committee next Thursday
City staff are recommending that the proposal be rejected: http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2012.PG19.6
One of the reasons they cite for not supporting it is their assertion that "the proposal would destabilize an employment area which contains a variety of viable and successful businesses." Can only really think of one business there, the rest are gone, the area is dead.
I hope Nestle continues to prosper there, but I also hope this development goes through to bring some much needed activity, and jobs, to the area.
Planning Department It Is 2012
On the news the other night somebody said that the City was dreaming if they thought industry was going to stay in the downtown core.We have land in our area that has been empty since the 1980's and no industry has decided to come back and yet the City Planning Department thinks that it will. They are nice enough folks but they do know its 2012 right? The kind of commercial interests of the future, the business that want to come to our area are like Ubisoft ; they want vibrant mixed communities to situate themselves in. The days of industrial park facilities in the downtown is gone. To pretend otherwise is foolhardly and for every factory that remains 100 have gone. Its done.
Think of the land on the north side of Wallace. Pittsburgh Paints sat on that land for years and nobody wanted it except for residential developers. And what is going up? A compromise that is mixed use and light commercial. Exactly what Castlepoint is proposing. So why can one employment area be changed and one a few blocks away not? Why shoul one part of our community be reinvigorated and another stuck in the 1950's?
The Planning Department cherry picks the Provincial Policy Statement which also lists as a guideline "b)providing opportunities for a diversified economic base, including maintaining a range and choice of suitable sites for employment uses which support a wide range of economic activities and ancillary uses, and take into account the needs of existing and future businesses;" That sounds like mixed use to me given that Castlepoint's proposal will bring more jobs to the area than there is currently and create a diverse economic community. And Castlepoints proposal also pays heed to the provinces desire to intensify within the Green Belt. Single story low density dead zone or high density taxpaying residences and business that conform to the Provinces Green Plan? Kinda sad that the question has to even be posed.
The oddest thing will be the OMB hearing that is inevitable. Usually communities go to the OMB to fight developers but in this case the community will be at the OMB fighting the City Planning Department. Great optics that will have.
I agree, it's a stupid
I agree, it's a stupid decision by the committee. If industry wanted to use the land, where are the offers? Does Paula Fletcher know about businesses that have tried to use the land for industry but have not been able to for some reason? I don't think so.
I actually suspect that it's all a rather cynical ploy by the city committee to look like they are doing the right thing, because they know the decision will be overturned at the OMB.
A factory in south etobicoke/Humber Bay Area
Christie's bakery is to close, at the behest of the parent company.
The Star has likened the issue to the Nestlé matter, and truly might highlight the underlying reason. Christie's parent company sees the sizable plant & huge parking space as underutilized land that has become very valuable land since the local condo boom, and it is either trying to rezone the land residential to sell it or to develop it themselves for a sizable profit. Either way, it's dollars & sense.
These corporations can mask their own intentions, and financial goals, looking at there ballooning assets and balance sheets, while making local development the scapegoat in-order to displace or dismiss employees, "innocently" trying to play the "victim"
Nestlé employees ought to check the motives of their employer....
Mr. Christie’s Bakery in Etobicoke set to close, throwing 550 out of work
http://bit.ly/QXyyhF
Nestlé poor PR approach becoming chronic
cc. VP Public Relations - Nestlé Canada
I attended the Castlepoint meeting (Sterling Rd Toronto, proposed development meeting) last night and once again was highly disappointed by the way nestle is handling this matter.
You'd think that after they fumbled with their unsolicited leaflet mailing, door knocking, "robo-call" style propaganda throughout our neighbourhood, they would have realized the gross error. But then to have the PR person come and spew more falsehoods and misrepresent information to Us, in our faces, the very people they pretend to speak for, as if we do not already know what we want and what our neighours also want, smells like contempt.
Castlepoint came and Asked Us, sought Our input, for 3 years....and acted on it...... They didn't come and tell us what we want or misrepresent us to the city planners or to our face, as nestle has clearly done.
Then to have their area resident/employees, finally,,,, also attend and speak against the development is one thing. But the way in which they consistently and abruptly interrupted speakers and rudely interject, loudly, at inappropriate times, was in very very bad taste and turned the environment hostile at times.
That was not the environment prior to there involvement, nor the space I wanted to be a part of. And considering my initial opinion about Nestlé involvement, PRIOR to last nights display, it was very much desired.
But after last nights antics, unprofessional etiquette and dramatic public image display, I'm left with a view of nestle as a brash and irresponsible corporate-neighbour.
Sadly, I've lost a lot of respect for a company I once admired. Admired namely because I once worked for them on a summer job while a high school senior saving for university.
Kori
Nestle Shows Contempt For Area
This is a dirty move by Nestle's PR hacks that have been recently hired to make this an "issue". Where has Nestle been over the last 3 years of public meetings and private consultations with Castlepoint? In the years that I have been following development I have rarely seen a developer go more out of their way to explain their process and to make concessions. Where was Nestle?
Industry has been leaving our area since 1980. Industrial land has been converting to non-industrial uses all along the rail corridor. And long time industrial users are "grandfathered" when nearby zoning changes (thats why Solways Metals on Ernest cant be closed down). Hasn't anybody at Nestle noticed this trend? They just found out weeks ago?
And the use of "Jobs vs. Condo's" is pure BS as people who have gone to the Castlepoint meetings would know. It is a cheap attempt to paint the development as elitist by using the word "condo". The reality is that the Castlepoint's development is mixed use and will bring far more jobs to the area, news businesses, and housing for an area where housing is in short supply. Why should the people of Sterling and Perth be forced to live near abandoned land or low use storage facilities instead of a vibrant community? Earth to Nestle, industry is GONE and not coming back. Earth to Nestle, mixed use is bringing modern jobs for the future. Its called change and you cannot stop it.
Some might argue that Castlepoint has been very open and active in the community as part of their "game" to win approval although from what I have seen the revitalization of abandoned land to mixed use is overwhelmingly popular anyway. But at least the Castlepoint people have been honest enough to face people in person instead of sneaking around putting misleading mailings in mailboxes like Nestle has done. And at least Catlepoint has presented a plan based on facts rather than trying to scare people.
Nestle you make sweets, but your attitude is bitter.
Where has Nestle been over
Three years ago development was for studios for the film industry. Nestle didn't have an issue with that.
Didn't people build homes in this area because of the jobs that were near? I live and work in Toronto because I don't want to travel an hour each way to get to work. It's becoming a massive problem (and waste of time and energy) to transport people to and from work.
When gas prices get to $1.50 or $2 people will move out of Toronto to where the work is closer, then the condos will become the new white elephants. Just wait, it's been predicted in 5 to7 years.
184 condos under construction, developers want to get in, get out fast. They aren't thinking about the long term success of Toronto.
Regarding the above post on Nestlé & TO jobs
I totally disagree,
Jobs move for a host of different reasons, and many years ago One of the reasons they moved to suburbs was the affordable land and many new young families, making it closer to commute.
Well the reverse is and already HAS been occurring in Toronto for many years now, where companies who went to suburbs 30-40yrs ago now want to move back into the city and namely the core or close to rapid public transit.
Because.... For exactly the same reason, most young people and young families are moving back into city or trying to buy homes/condos in city (because of lifestyle choice, walk-ability, close entertainment, good public transit, vibrancy etc etc), and these companies see them as the their ideal future employees (young, energetic, recent graduates, tech savy, full of new ideas to lead company etc). Go-figure why there is a housing boom spurring a condo/townhouse craze, then coupled with the lowest commercial real-estate availability in the city core, unseen in decades and risk of demand far beyond the supply for the next 5-10yrs unless serious building of commercial space starts to occur.
see Star article: http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1275573--toronto-real-estate-dem...
So your argument that the trend of moving towards the suburbs will occur again, is false, industry and I am speaking of new industry is racing back into the city core, what would be nice is if the older industries like nestle stop trying to fight the change and accept that change is inevitable and renewal necessary.
Funny thing is 40-50yrs ago the now seniors still living within the city thought those people and industry that fled to suburbs causing the traffic chaos we now face and urban sprawl were crazy
Now a more informed society sees the gross mistake made during that era and see the need to fix it.
Kori
Jobs and Homes: The New Normal
Yes I agree, this poster is 100% inaccurate about urban trends going on across North America. People are moving downtown and mixed use live/work communities is where it is at. It is worth nothing that this mixed use development will bring, at the end, 2000 new workers to the area, many who may actually chose to live in the development or the JT area.
Over the past 20 years at least 10 industrial operators in the JT area have left due to bankruptcy, consolidation, NAFTA, mitigation costs among the many reasons. A quick Google search under the term "Nestle closes plant" reveals that they too open, move, and often close plants all over the world for market reasons that have nothing to do with the locales in which the plants operate. If they can do it in Zimbabwe, Colorado, England, and China then they can do it here. To imply that Nestle has some kind of special relationship to JT is malarkey and one would be a fool to believe it.
The JT has suffered years of empty brownfields and lost jobs and now we see new jobs and new residential density reshaping and invigorating the area.It is going to happen regardless and people have the opportunity to work with it or be left behind.
After 8 public meetings, countless consultations, newspaper stories, applications to the City, web postings, flyers from Bailao and City Planning going on for years it is a sad testament to Nestle that this is all news to them. So much for being connected to the community. So connected in fact that their response was to hire a supposedly slick PR company to harass, mislead, and stir up opposition with robo calls and "negative ad" style flyers that tried to divide the community and make the false choice between jobs and homes. There is no choice, in a modern city jobs and homes will mix and we see this already all over the city; we already see this in our community with Ubisoft. Nestle's aggressive PR moves in my opinion are a low point in our community's history and I urge them to stop now.
I have spent a large amount of time hearing about this project and I have never ever heard anybody suggest that Nestle should leave and I have never ever seen the Castlepoint people back away from sitting down to work out issues with those that might have a problem with their project. Not everyone is going to be 100% happy but at least they have been heard out.Castlepoint made an offer to Nestle last night that could help everybody be happy. Nestle's brass should take that opportunity, leave the fear mongering behind, and work with the community instead of against it.
Nestles and their fort apache
Nestles and their fort apache approach to trying to intervene in the last hours is hardly community building - and given that they have had 3 years to be part of the community dialogue on this project ... Their speaking out now has more to do with the delayed reaction to projects on Ritchie ' Golden and their recent loss at St Helen's just suddenly hit them they are needing to become a real part of a neighbourhood, however , rather than participate in the process they decide to hire a lobby group to pick up the gauntlet and try and create division.
We have community support for this Castlepoint project as well as 3 years of resident input .
Castlepoint is on the right side of this argument and clearly Nestles has decided to threaten to up and close - they have already spent $10. Million in making this a nut free facility - they are just sabre rattling for the sake of trying to either slow the changes to the neigh our hood or to have the city offer them concessions that Cadbury is not getting.
Why not a park? Oh! No money
Why not a park? Oh! No money in that idea! Sorry