Junction Triangle

My notes were pertaining to Dale GoldHawk Debat and not the DPNC debate.JF

Ontario's power consumption has been going down over the past few years. Electrification will create demand for power, just like everything else does. Expanded generation is seen as a province wide demand, not tied to a specific factory or location.

If there was a blackout dirty diesel trains would not run either, their signaling is electric.

Using electricity means that the source can be spread over many different generation locations. Diesel is stuck relying on oil and the issues of price and world market price that come with it. Both oil and electricity prices will go up but at least in the electricity market we have some element of control.

This is discussed in both reports I posted.

To be very brief since I'm on a smart phone and not my computer,

Diesel is a big waste, and electric more cost effective (not cheaper) when you factor in the other circumstances,

But GO themselves plan this line to serve downtown biz commuters going to PIA
Well first of all they are about 15 yrs late or more, since the target audience they plan has rapidly adopted the island airport for biz commuting, and that is today, forget about in another 4yrs, those commuters are alredy getting good service and more carries will be flying from the island within the next 12-24mths, so the client they hope for will not have any reason to go to PIA which now goes back to who will be using this thing kicking all this diesel particles into the air running empty???

Secondly, by making it electric it can make local stops serving the communities it run through which now serves a dual purpose, it could stop in liberty village, west queen west, roncy, Bloor, Dupont, junction etc, now they can appeal to two audiences and not just the targeted audience, it almost serves as a more immediate downtown relief line that might never get built, so why find the money twice for duplication of service when by making this line electric once can serve a dual purpose

Not to mention the health benefits, noise, etc etc

"page 8 includes an unqualified recommendation of the air rail link". Yes it's the Transit City plan that uses ELECTRIC TRAINS, not diesel!

Toronto's Medical Officer of Health Dr. David McKeown has always insisted that the only acceptable mitigation to protect human health is the electrification of the service. That despite Metrolinx's attempts to mislead and distort his words (which they were nailed for).

Electric Trains were also part of Metrolinx's Big Move before they quietly disappeared in early 2009.

Metrolinx has said that electric is a better option providing more service at a lower cost. Metrolinx's cost projections have tumbled by billions since they first said that electric was too expensive and not feasible. Now they trumpet diesel conversion to electric and are starting an electric EA. So Metrolinx has slowly moved its position to be in line with favoring an electric system and are looking at electrifying the entire system. They have had a change of technical heart.

Metrolinx and the government have called the service a premium service, their words not mine, placing it out of the budget of many and a higher cost than comparative systems. 100$ for a family of 4 to use the service one way? That doesn't sound like public transit to me.

Metrolinx ackowldged at a public meeting this year that their "1.5" million cars trips off the road claim is not based on a credible data and promised to stop using it.

An electric system would be cheaper than diesel in the long run according to Metrolinx's data AND would allow at least 2 additional stops on the route. That's good for users and for taxpayers (this additional access is not factored into Metrolinx's data but a system that could serves thousands more at basically the same price sounds like a good deal to me).

You seem unable to understand that people are FOR expanded commuter rail, rail that serves the most, is greener, and cost effective in the long run. Nimbyism? That accusation is the last refuge of those with no real argument given that thousands are demanding expanded electric service. I have yet to find one person who is against expanded electric rail service in the corridor. You fail to notice that some of these "facts" are now agreed on by Metrolinx. Metrolinx has moved towards the position of those who think an electric system day one is better. If they had not been so pig headed and trapped in an outdated mindset at the outset we might actually be on the road to electric right now. You speak about honesty but I remind you that Metrolinx initially 100% refused to even consider an electric system citing unfounded issues that they themselves have now backtracked on after their own studies backed up what the public was saying. I also remind you that Metrolinx was chastised by the Ad Standards Council for being misleading. I actually dont blame MX, they are forced to toe a position that is political and not even in line with their own evolving position.

When a candidate shows up and doesnt have a working knowledge of the issue is not a waste of time, it is actually sadly enlightening.

Lets look at a a quote from Martins. In the Bloordale Press she says:

"“These are not huge trains, they aren’t cargo trains,” Martins said. “I think it’s important that we implement them this way so that we can actually make the commitment to the Pan-American games, which will bring many, many jobs to Ontario, it will bring a lot of money to Ontario, about 250,000 tourists are expected.”

First off the jobs created are mostly short term and most have nothing do with the rail line. Buying electric trains from Bombardier in Ontario would have provided solid jobs for years (including maintenance ) instead of jobs in Japan.

The vast majority of Pan Am visitors and athletes will be bused and wont use the premium service (It says so in the Pan Am Games own literature). The airlink cannot possibly come even near moving 250,000 thousand people so it is somewhat dubious to use that large number as a way of defending the limited service.

We were promised that the games would be the greenest ever. But we are getting buses and diesel trains, hardly a link that serves thousands of people. After the games we will be stuck with a line that underserves the city and will need additional money for electric conversion.

I would add that Martin's comments as said by Tawnya also are an attempt to tie two unrelated issues together.Improvements to Bloor station and Weston station are part of the "Mobility Hub" plan and will happen regardless of whether the system is electric or diesel; remember that an electric system would easily allow at least 2 additional hubs at Queen and St. Clair and that STRENGTHENS the "Mobility Hub" vision ---which is according to Metrloinx "where different modes of transportation – from walking to biking to riding transit – come together seamlessly and where there is an intensive concentration of working, living, shopping and/or playing." I think Queen Street and St. Clair would be all for that and the long term jobs that would create. Too bad diesel cannot achieve this. Electric would have allowed the engineering and EA work for St. Clair and Queen to be done at the same time; a saving of money and the delivery of an economic boost to those additional stations right now when it is needed.

Martins also says in the Bloordale Press: "Martins said that these trains, which can be electrified, are the cleanest available, and if elected she will ensure that there will be no delay in converting them to electric."

The sad part of this quote is that we could be electric today if the Liberal government had not stuck its head in the sand. As a taxpayer I dont really like the idea that we bought diesel trains from Japan just for a 15 day event and that suddenly we will change the trains to electric at an additional cost. This is the kind of insanity that only politics can create.

I dont see much in her statement that is good for people who attend the games, for people who live here, or for taxpayers. I dont see anything from her that directly addresses how the people who actually live in the ward feel.Its just the same out of date PR spin we got 3 years ago.The Pan Am games is a pretty poor reason to waste money on a system that will have to be changed anyway. An all hybrid bus system (as used at other games) on HOV lanes while taking the time to build a good system would have made a lot more sense and if it was not for the fear of loosing face about the Pan Am games Metrolinx would have decided to wait and go electric. The Pan Am games have become a convenient excuse to continue a flawed idea rather than pursue a better plan.

Metrolinx in many ways has evolved and moved to what the pro transit public wants. Its evident when you talk with them and evident in their actions and off the record they all think electric is better . Its too bad that the government is concerned about loosing face.

FYI... From Gabrielle and Marcelo at the DPNC:

"Hi everyone
Unfortunately, the Davenport MPP Candidates Meeting will not happen tonight.
We are looking at September 26 as a new date to re-schedule it. We will inform you on the new day and time soon.
Apologies for any inconvenience."

Just looked at Liberal candidate's bio and it seems the liberals are using the tried and true method: find someone/anyone Portugese and it's a slam dunk. And why not? we have had no show Tony for decades and no one has raised a fuss.

I'd really prefer to vote for someone who has a track record of being noticed before an election is called, and I hope others look at the person and not the label.

"The federal riding of Davenport has been one of the most consistently Liberal ridings in Canada over the last century.... from 2006 census:Demographic Profile:
• 2006 population: 104,615
• 2001-2006 population change: -6.3 per cent
• Visible minority: 32.9 per cent
• Median household income: $47,463
• Rented: 45 per cent, versus owned: 55 per cent
• Average number of children at home per family: 1.2
• Unemployment rate: 7.3 per cent
the four dominant languages are: Portuguese, Italian, Spanish and English

`Hey Vic,

I guess you or someone eles who updated the candidates names. However when you click on Kirk`s name it goes to something else, unlike the other 3 candidates which goes to their web site. Out of respect either delete it or get his proper website, if he has one JF

Did anyone see the story about Tony not running this fall in the Villager? I really like the part where he says "after 33 years in public life, I have always placed constituents' priorities before my personal needs."