Ward 18 All-Candidates' Debate
The following notice was sent in by the meeting organizers. A downloadable copy of the flyer is available here.:
Come meet your Ward18/Davenport Candidates.
Ana Bailao, Kevin Beaulieu, Frank de Jong, Nha Le, Jack Triolo, Hema Vyas, Ken Wood
Who should be the next City Councillor for Ward18/Davenport? You the VOTERS have that power and choice to decide on Election Day. Please, don’t forget to vote on Monday, October 25th, 2010.
Please join us for an All Candidates’ Debate. No pre-planned questions. For those residents who may be a little shy and don’t want to speak directly to the candidates, we ask that you please bring your questions to the debate and drop them into the box that will be provided for you. We encourage community groups, ratepayer associations, and BIA’s including vulnerable and at-risk groups such as seniors and youth to attend this debate. Candidates need to hear your concerns, ideas and issues.
WHEN: Tuesday, May 18, 2010
TIME:7:00-9:00 PM
WHERE: Casa Da Madeira - 1621 Dupont Street (East of Dundas St West and West of Symington & Lansdowne Avenue)Contact Information:
Jack Fava favagj@hotmail.com - 416-301-5367
Virginia Novak virginia49@rogers.com - 416-537-8006
NOTE: Comments have disabled on this item now. For post-meeting followup comments, please go here.
Comments
All Candidates meeting followup
NOTE: Comments have disabled on this item now. For post-meeting followup comments, please go here.
Just a reminder to read the Code of Conduct
This is heating up again. Please take a moment to read the Code of Conduct, particularly the sections about "No personal attacks" and about posting anonymous comments.
If anyone needs to hash out personal grievances, please take it somewhere else.
Thanks,
Vic
Bickering is tiresome
If people would spend half the time they do guttersniping into something positive we could really move on. There are real issues affecting the ward and the City and all this endless debate about what is fair and what isn't just distracts from the real work that needs to be done. The meeting will probably be not unlike the hundreds of other meetings going on in other wards and if people don't like it then stage your own meeting or stay home. At least save your energy for talking to the candidates, promoting an issue, or helping a campaign. Bickering is tiresome.
Legitimate Discussion
Scott, I'm not sure what changes more often, your positions or the direction of the wind. You go from disagreeing vehemently with the lead organizer one day to defending him the next.
Here is a guy who has practically made a career of playing the victim and portraying the neighbourhood in a negative light with a series of vigils (a number about events completely unrelated to the neighbourhood), repeatedly overstating crime and safety issues, and attacking every community initiative that he dislikes in an ignorant manner.
The discussion and criticisms of the organization of tonight's debate are fair. This event will be one of the very few opportunities that will see the candidates debate the issues right here in the Junction Triangle. Residents would be better served if there had been a more open organizational structure that permitted interested residents to have a say in the format and the debate moderator which remains a secret to all but a select group of people. Instead, what we have is one individual hijacking an important event without input from any other residents. That's not a community event, those are the actions of someone with their own personal agenda attempting to hog the spotlight.
Here is how it works. I
Here is how it works. I disagree with things that I think are wrong and I agree with things that I think are right. Very rarely though is one person 100% wrong or right all the time and personally I am open to changing or bending myself as things change or new information emerges. Twisting in the wind in my book means being flexible but staying true to my core values which are actually my true core values, something that seeks no approval from others, but exists for me to be me. It is better to twist a bit in the wind than be a fence.
My comment was suggesting that maybe we could use a bit less "debate" and a bit more action. I am getting tired of the lack of positive news here.
constructive use of this debate
I think it's a first step and if we want to see more debates in the neighbourhood, I suggest we create an atmosphere where we can make it happen. I think that East of the Tracks Neighbourhood Action or Junction Triangle would be just two groups who would possibly put on another debate. I feel that one question we should ask the candidates tonight is how much time they are willing to commit to having all candidates debates between now and the election. I'm sure we can organize a couple more before Election Day and I'm willing to help.
In fact I would like to put forward the idea that we have a few more debates, but also have evenings when we could go and meet the candidates informally, say at Boo's or the Library and just grab a coffee and talk with the individually on where they stand and what our concerns are. Debates are great, but sometimes it's more important to have a brief chat with a candidate. And while it would be great if all could be available for the casual get together, it wouldn't mean they'd have to be there either. It would be a set date and time and people would just know that the candidates are at the library the third Thursday of the month, there's coffee and a chance to see where they are at.
I will bring this up at the meeting tonight.
r.
Roy do you want me to print your posting and???
Roy, do you want me to print your posting and show the candidates or do you want to ask the candidates yourself. Let me know call me at home home# 416-534-0602.
We are also hoping to do a Mayor Canadiadtes Debate in Ward18, we were going to do a double debate night, but CP24 is doing ther's tonight and we didn't want to divide the Mayors. This Ward or part of the City is one part of Canada's largest City, we a very importnat part of the City. This community is known right accross the City. JF
debate.
I look forward to the debate. I know that this is the first one to my knowledge in the the hood. I'm sure it's in everyone's best interest to have this debate and attend.
Hats off to to the organizers the people who run this site..it's a greaf forum.
And builds the enthusiasm for the neighbourhood and desire to make it a better, well informed neighbourhood. Maybe after the debate, we can meet to discuss how to make future debates happen and how to help make our neighbours informed about the issues and upcoming debates.
See everyone on Tuesday.
r.
Debate Moderator
Who will be the moderator of the debate on May 18th? Sure hope it will be someone who is strictly non-partisan and can represent the community properly. It would be a lost opportunity if the moderator was someone inclined to over-state crime and poverty issues in the area, has a very divisive history in the neighbourhood, or, is prone to using meaningless jargon like "catchment area."
Beyond the Junction Triangle
I am looking forward to this debate. Thanks to the organizers for putting it together. However, I am curious, is this debate publicized outside of our area for other Ward 18 residents to attend? I only ask because Ward 18 is large and wondered if residents, around, say, King St. between Dovercourt and just west of Lansdowne would also know about this too? It would make an interesting Q&A to hear questions from residents outside of the JT but who are also part of Ward 18.
Debate on May 18, 2010
Irmina, We are going to do a door to door flyer drop off in the JT catchment only, in English and in 5 other languages, to try to draw as many residents as we can to the debate. As far as the rest of Ward18, I will email different groups, residents, bia's, ratepayer ass., inviting them to the debate. I will also send out the info to different media outlets, I already have confirmation from couple of the media about attending. Like others said there will be other debates in ward18 before the election in October.
For some residents the venue might be to far as we are at the very tip of ward18.
The other thing was we were orginally going to do a double debate night, with the Mayor Candidates, but the Ledrew show was having there own debate the same night. So both CP24 and myself decided not to divide the Mayors. As I had 4 out of the 6 Mayors committed. I am still working on a date for (some) Mayor candidates debate. JF
Debate
I was wondering if there is going to be some interpreters at this event? Is the facility fully accessible? Will child care be provided? Just wanted to make sure that as many people as possible would be included.
Debate
Sorry, no child care. Yes, I have been speaken to people about trying to find interpreters, but they all want money for their services, zero $$$ and YES, the place is fully accessible, I wouldn't get a venue unless it was accessible. JF
If you need a Spanish
If you need a Spanish interpreter then I am available.
I used to live in Ward 18 years ago.
If you can e-mail me before the debate. I can help out.
We can always use more interpreters
Hi, We can always use more Interpreters. If you want to email me at favagj@hotmail.com or just come to the debate and introduce yourself. There are many agencies out there, but many have want a fee attached for there services, which is understanding, as many make a living interpreting. Many have gone to University and College and have made a career in this. Thank you Jack
More Democracy Would Help
A little more democracy would help this debate. Residents have not been permitted to participate in the selection of a moderator or the format of the event. The identity of the moderator remains a secret and the format won't be revealed until the start of the debate. It appears that organizers are just going to dictate debate terms to residents. Can't imagine why an inclusive process that would foster more participation in an area that has a historically low voter turnout could not have been developed?
It's Not a secret who the moderators is all 8 candidates know
I don't think it's a secret who the moderator is when all 8 candidates know, we have been communication back and forth since the beginning, so no one ojected to who the moderator is so that was fine with. We will also have some observers coming down to the debate. There is no preplanned question so the residents will be asking the questions, we will let the residents ask the questions. I have never heard of residents ever deciding on a moderator. I do have a suggesting for the anonymous writer is do your own debate and make up your own rules. It seems that's the way things are do in this community.JF
Moderator Remains a Secret
So you and the candidates know the identity of the moderator Jack. Why don't the residents know as well? It seems like a bit of a stretch for you to say residents should determine which candidates can speak at the Dig In meetings, but you will decide who moderates the local all candidates meeting, set all the terms and keep it a secret as well. Doesn't appear very democratic and indicates that the City really needs to step in to prevent debates getting hijacked and set the terms for these kind of events in the future.
Get your story strait, it was Ken who mentioned Dig-in
Anonymos, It was Ken who said the thing about Dig In, not me. Get your story strait. JF
Moderator: resident of Ward 18
I hope the debate moderator is a resident of Ward 18. I'd like to add that just because all 8 candidates agreed to who the Moderator will be, those eight have yet to be elected as Ward 18 councillor and DO NOT REPRESENT the community. Democracy means the community gets to choose. It's too late now, but next time we have a debate organized by the same people, please consider a community wide vote to help select a moderator. It's only fair.
Just because the residents are asking the candidates questions means nothing, if we didn't get a chance to vet and choose the debate Moderator, then it's not democratic. Moreover, who are these "observers" for the debate? What are they observing? Are they observing which resident asks a question that may not fit a particular platform and will then be watched with greater scrutiny during the course of the evening? Who gets to choose who these "observers" are? Are these "observers" part of Ward 18? I'm just looking out for the unsuspecting people who may not know they are being "watched" by observers.
I don't live in North Korea.
When you organize you own debate????
Suggestion, When you organize your own debate, please do a community wide vote to choose a moderator. We decided to go this route. We have been working on this for a month, trying to get a venue , buying our own flyers and distributing them. So like I said everyone is welcomed, if you don't like it, stay home or do your own debate. I feel we have been fair, like I said no pre-planned question, no secret panels of experts. Now to clarify the observers, they are couple of candidates from other wards, wanting to hear the debate. They have no offical role, other then to see what we are doing, everyone is welcomed to come. One of them is a first time candidates the other has run before. I hope I have clarified it for the same few writers who many of us know who it is. Try to be orginal use your own words. I heard these words before. JF
Contact the organizers
You didn't post your contact info publicly, so the organizers won't be able to reach you. I'd suggest sending an email to them (see above).
Debate is Unfair
What's the point of circulating the event announcement in five languages if you don't make interpreters available? This sounds rather discriminatory, speak English or you are excluded!
What about the hearing-impaired and the visually-challenged, how are organizers planning to accomodate them?
I'm also wondering about the moderator of the event, will there be a democratic selection process to determine who will lead the event? How can we be sure the moderator is completely unbiased and is fair to all of the candidates regardless of their affiliation?
The City should have a policy about these events so they are not hijacked by people just wanting to grandstand.
RE:Debate been Unfair- To Anonymous Resident
Anonymous person. Sending out the information in the top 5 languages, was to inform residents about what is going on in their community.
Unlike some of our elected officals and groups in our ward and Toronto, sending out literature in english only. The objective here was to let as many residents know about what is going on in the hood. Out of the 97% of the people in Ward18 only 36% speak english and the rest are others with no englsih or french. See ward18 profile.
Regarding the moderator been biased, we spoke to each candidate. I think they are grown up enough to make their own mind up and have decided to participate in the debate. There are no pre-planned questions. So all of the question are coming from residents. So were is the biased. JF
You're Telling Them They Are Excluded
All you are doing Jack is telling people about an English language debate in five languages. How exactly does that help them participate? You went on TV talking about your mother being excluded because she does not speak English. How are you going to facilitate the participation of people like her?
English Stats for Ward 18: Dovercourt-Wallace Emerson-Junction
"Out of the 97% of the people in Ward18 only 36% speak english and the rest are others with no englsih or french. See ward18 profile."
I did look at the stats from the City of Toronto web site: http://www.toronto.ca/demographics/cns_profiles/cns93.htm
The language stats are: English is spoken by 56.3% of residents NOT 36% as per your stat.
Additionally for ALL of Ward 18, the stats are (http://www.toronto.ca/wards2000/ward18.htm):
Top 10 Home Language Group
English 55.8%
Attached link for stats from ward18 profile
Hi Irmina, I guess there is two different stats. JF
http://www.toronto.ca/wards2000/pdf/2006/ward18_ethnocultural_page.pdf
Ward 18: Top Ten Home Language Groups
Hi Jack,
I looked at that very document and if you look at subheader "Top Ten Home Language Groups", second box on the left side. It states English 55.8%
I'm looking at the Top Ten Mother Tougue Group
I guess I was looking at the top left- TOP TEN MOTHER TONGUE GROUP and below that is "no knowledge of english or french".
Any way I received an email from Eli from the Brockton Triangle group, who wants to do an all candidate debate. I wuish her all the success. I passed along the candidate emails. Once she finds an venue and date, one more debate. I think ward18 should do as many as possible.JF
Top Ten Mother Tongue Group
Yes, I looked at that table too and only 11.7% have no knowledge of English/French. English still comes out as the most spoken language at 39.1% with Portuguese coming in second at 25.3%, third is Spanish at 4.1%, fourth is Chinese (other than Cantonese, Mandarin, Taiwanese, Chaochow (Teochow), Fukien, Hakka and Shanghainese) at 3.4% and fifth is Cantonese at 3.3%. That's why I thought the "Top Ten Home Language Groups" table summed up the stats a bit more clearly in terms of English being the dominant language spoken in our area.
That's wonderful that other community groups will be organizing a candidates debate!
Interpreters
Here's just a suggestion. I am sure we all know a neighbour or two who can speak both english and a second language. We can ask if any of them would be willing to volunteer their time to translate at this event. That way you can get around the cost.
Help Out Instead
I am sure Jack is trying his best but there is no way that this meeting is unfair. It is being run by a community member, not the City, and being held in the Official Language used by most people in the ward. If Jack was not devoting time to it it might not happen at all. Sometimes things cant be done to accommodate everybody and that's just the way it is. If you feel so strongly then you help arrange things; charges of discrimination are not true and not helpful.
Thanks Scott D.
The other debates we done in the community, I felt were done well. JF
Debate is Unfair
If it was anyone other than Jack, you might be right. But Jack Fava spents months criticizing the organizers of the Fuzzy Boundaries project for any number of things including their English and Portuguese material. You have to live by the standards you demand of others and clearly the organizers of this event are falling well short of that.
Time to scrap these debate plans until someone can do a better job of accommodating all the neighbourhood groups and special interests. There also should be a process to determine the moderator that is open and democratic so that a biased person does not represent the community.
List of Names for the Debate Moderator
I do agree we need a non-partisan moderator to make the debate fair and let each candidate air their platform without bias.
Just a suggestion, but perhaps to keep an open process of who the moderator will be, a list of candidates with a short summary of their credentials can be published here for the community to see. Plus, a write up in the Villager newspaper, and some signage posted on hydro poles, for others who may not have computer access. I may be able to help with posting some signs up around the neighbourhood.
But how will the community vote on a moderator in the most democratic process?
My two cents. :)
The villager and others will be informed.
All candidates will have a certain amount of time in the begining to talk about what ever they want to speak about. Not sure if it's 5 mins or 3.5 mins. That is all I am telling you now. We have to fine tune it before the debate, they are all aware of it. I will need to speak to the candates first, before I let others know about the rules, only fair I tell them first, will tell everyone at the debate. JF
I would hope that ward 18
I would hope that ward 18 will have more than one debate. Last time there was also one at McCormack Arena. Our ward is so long that it really has 3 different zones that tend to equate themselves east west more than north south. No offense to any of those that have put their names forward but this crop is definitely 3ard string. With all the talented people we have in the ward you would think that we would have better choices. Why dont we?
no offence and definitely third string?
wow, that makes no sense and I believe there are some good candidates there.