Fuzzy Boundaries meeting (Jan. 14)

Meeting announcement from the Fuzzy Boundaries group:

More than a year ago, a residents' group called Fuzzy Boundaries asked the community to name the neighbourhood, and since then more than 200 ideas have been put forward.

You are invited to our third public meeting, where residents will make their pitch for a favourite name.

There will be no keynote speaker, just a gathering of neighbours exchanging ideas. Brockton Addition? Junction Triangle? The Railpath? As always, it promises to be a lively and engaging discussion. Afterwards, vote for your choice January 15 to 29 at fuzzyboundaries.ca or at the Perth/Dupont Library.

When?: Thursday January 14, 7pm, at 45 Ernest Avenue (the new Boys and Girls Club location).

All are welcome to attend this free event.

For details, call Kevin at 416-537-1128 or visit fuzzyboundaries.ca where discussions about our great neighbourhood take place online.

Some more details about the January 14 meeting, as posted on the Fuzzy Boundaries site:

Thursday's third and final public meeting will be held at the new Boys and Girls Club location at 45 Ernest Avenue at 7 p.m. The meeting will be moderated by Fuzzy Boundaries' group member Warren McPherson. The meeting is designed to give everyone an opportunity to speak about a name they like or dislike.

The format is quite simple, the moderator will select people at random to speak for one or two minutes for a neighbourhood name they like. The floor will then be open for one other person to speak against that name (if there is anyone). The moderator will then select another person to speak about a different name, then a person against that name and so on until all the names have been covered. Then the meeting will go through all the names a second time that people want to speak for and against and then a third time (and so on) until everyone has had an opportunity to speak.

At the end of the meeting ballots will be made available for anyone wishing to vote for a name. For people who want to think about their decision a little more, the formal voting period will run from Janaury 15 to January 29. You can vote on-line here at the Fuzzy Boundaries web site or at the Perth/Dupont location of the Toronto Public Library at 1589 Dupont Street.

We hope to see you on Thursday night.


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Fuzzy meeting tonight

Should be interesting. Looking forward to hearing the for-and-against discussions about various names.

Also, voting starts immediately after the meeting. You can vote in person at the meeting or at the Perth-Dupont library, or online at the Fuzzy Boundaries website (voting form will be enabled later tonight).

Ballot boxes close on January 29th.

Sponding to the article in the community paper NEIGHBOURS

I am not sure if what the paper wrote in the community news, NEIGHBOURS as been correct. As a resident of this community I have a concern on how the name is choosen, if what the paper is saying to been correct, there is a problem. It was quoted in the paper that the final decision will be made by a panel of experts and residents, to avoid as Kevin said, names like"Pink Triangle" I personnally don't like that name pink triangle, but i feel it's much better then wedge. But regardless what the name is, if that is what the majority of residents likes, then that's the final decision. We have to live with it. This should be the residents choice, not a panel of experts, if the experts feel they like to give an opinion, thats' great. But the democratic way, like in any voting situation, the majority wins. Final decision and the last word should come from residents.

I seen the yellow signs around the neighbourhood, asking residents to vote and pick a name for the neighbourhood. Then we turn around and say well thanks but, you don't have the last say the panel does. This is not fair and democratic. Jack

Voting process

The process has been set since at least May 2009. Why are you bringing it up just now?

If you came to any of the three public meetings where the process was discussed and continually approved by the attendees, you could have made your objections known. The process has been documented on the Fuzzy Boundaries website for many months.

In the end, it's entirely up to the residents. Even if the panel chooses a name that people don't like, nobody is forced to use it. You can keep calling it Junction Triangle. A certain developer can keep calling it Davenport Village. Some people will keep calling us The Junction. Some silly real estate agents will even continue calling this Bloor West Village. People who like excessively long names can continue using the City's official "Dovercourt Wallace Emerson Junction" name.


Not to be a stickler for

Not to be a stickler for details and Vic I can personally vouch that you are an honest person but I would like to clarify that your statement

"If you came to any of the three public meetings where the process was discussed and continually approved by the attendees".

By the third meeting the process was already underway so it doesn't count.

I was at 2 other meetings and at the first there was general talk about the process from Kevin and then at the second Bruce Ward talked about the process in more detail. In neither case was there a vote on the process. What you are actually saying is that at 2 meeting there were no objections. But I can speak for myself and say that I personally talked with all members of the FB group with concerns about the process including yourself over the last year, some of the same concerns that are starting to be voiced.

In terms of the website, the process as described is a year after the initial meeting is still lacking in information about who the "experts" are, how they are chosen, and how their process will work. I accept that a panel will develop their own procedures but at this point most of the panel process remains unknown to the public and the panels methodology has never been presented to the public.

I would also point out that I have seen writings that clearly state the intent; "where community members will name their ’hood — once and for all." and can understand where even community members who support a new name would have difficulty reconciling the current process as far as it is known and that kind of statement. Saying "Even if the panel chooses a name that people don't like, nobody is forced to use it" seems to be a cop out. Why be scared of revising the process to actually get as many people as possible voting on an actual name?

I support the naming project and the good it has done but I suggest that the FB group might want to reconsider the process in light of some of the complaints or at least clear up some aspects of the process (like who is on the panel) before proceeding. In the end a vote on a specific name, or 3 names, by as many locals as possible would make the most people happy.

Scott thank you for saying

Scott thank you for saying what I have been thinking. Let's go back to the begining when the group first formed. You relied on the web to get your message across. But you forgot one thing not everyone knew about the web-sit or the group. Not everyone has a computor and you have people who don't read English. Somehow you need to connect with the masses. The correct way to have done it by distributing flyers to all residence of the Junction Triangle. The boundaries are the rail tracks north of Dupont. The tracks to the west and east and Bloor to the south. I never got any yellow postcard annoucing the vote that some got south of Wallace. I know many residence north of Dupont, and they never heard of the group or any meetings.

I know a project such as this is laborious, but if done correctly can pay off in the end. The group needs to reach out to all residence in the community with a flyer's, and community newspaper coverage announcing who you are and what you want to atchieve. Hold a few general meetings. At your last meeting, ask residence to come up with names. Vote on say the 5 most popular names then announce when the vote will take place. Out of fairness every household in the community should get a postcard with the date the vote will be held (the vote should be one day not spread over a week). In the end the vote is counted and the name with the most votes wins the election.

I have a real problem with people casting their vote and then a pannel of people sifts through all the vote and they pick out a name not the residence. Some of the people I have spoken to have great objection to that method. Third world countries vote in that way so they can stack the government with their people. In a democratic society such as ours, we vote and in the end our vote counts. I am not comfortable with the way this is being handled.

I hope you reconsider they way you are going about this process. I have no objection to the naming of the community as long as it is far and above board.

A Democratic Proposal

A Democratic Proposal

I too would like to propose a simple, fair, and transparent voting process that can take over from where FB is now; making good on the good work that FB has done so far, but ensuring that the community actually get to directly vote on a name. The current process, of which the jury part is still unknown to the community, is not a democratic voting process but that doesn’t mean a fair naming process cant happen this year. It will take some more work but doing the right thing always does.

1.The current nomination process should be scrapped. Fuzzy Boundaries continues but FB will need help and a call for volunteers will have to go out and some people who don’t agree are going to have to get along to make this process as inclusive as FB says it wants to be, and as its critics say they want it to be. Bitching stops, hard work begins.

2. An expert in votes and plebiscites (probably from U of T) joins the process to iron out the details according to standard democratic procedure. All details will be hammered out with the aid of the Councilor and all details will be posted online in ADVANCE of any nomination or voting. Our expert will be available should any other kinks be detected. The over-riding governing principal will be: how do we make sure that as many residents as possible have the opportunity to nominate and then vote. Any meeting will have minutes taken that are publicly available.

3. A series of new nomination ballots be distributed using the help of the Councilor.

--each ballot requires a name and address and phone number to be considered valid. The ballot will have a link to an information privacy statement posted on the FB site, and have disclaimer that no personal information will be private and not used for any other purpose.

--Each ballot asks for 3 choices in order of preference; a far superior system of reaching a consensus view of a community opinion than the standard “first past the post system”.

-- An online ballot version with the same rules is available

--The nominations are added up using the standard “weighted” system and made public

4. A further meeting is held in September that may include experts, politicians, in addition to the residents. The purpose of this meeting is to discuss the results, advocate in a fun way for choices, to vote out any names that are offensive, intended as a joke, or counter to naming. As well this meeting would serve as a pep rally for volunteers to publicize the later vote including activities like:

-- actual volunteers going door to door to talk with neighbours on their block until EVERY single block has been contacted directly

-- posters and flyer drop offs in stores and local community gathering places, aided by the Councillor

-- a drive for volunteers to staff the election

5. A Real Vote

It is logical to take advantage of the existing fall election to provide opportunity for as many people as possible to vote on a name. The drama of an existing election campaign will create additional interest in the naming vote and possibly draw local candidates into the debate.

-- A series of voting stations are setup in existing polling stations in our naming area.

--Each completed ballot requires a name and address and phone number to be considered valid. The ballot will have a link to a information privacy statement posted on the FB site, and have disclaimer that no personal information will be private and not used for any other purpose.

--Ballots contain the 5 most popular valid names from the nomination. This ballot, and the names, will already have been displayed on the website.

--Voters select 3 of the 5 in order of preference, again for a more consensual result. The results are weighted according to these preferences just like many other votes and plebiscites.

--Ballots will remain uncounted until the voting is over. Results would be known on election night and publicized.

--The winner is announced

The bottom line with this plan is that all the good work of FB would be recognized AND everybody could feel good that residents actually hand a direct hand in the vote naming the community they live in. I recognize that under no process will 100% of people vote and that there will be some people unhappy no matter what happens. But I don’t want to take the easy route out by using the “well most people don’t care” excuse. I don’t want to feel that some residents had more of a say than others and that the majority had no say at all. I would rather live by the choice of my fellow residents than some un-named jury entirely sponsored by the Real Estate industry. I frankly don’t want to hear bitching about the process/name for the next 30 years because we didn’t try to make this process as democratic as it should be.

A year ago Fuzzy Boundaries said “We are not out to name the neighbourhood ourselves, but to inspire the community to choose a name...”

A direct vote process like this makes it so. Or somebody else’s direct vote plan makes it so. Why would anybody be against letting the community decide?

Does anybody else out there have any ideas to make this process democratic ?

I agree with scott, we need to inform all the residents in the c

Though the fuzzy boundaries cards went out to homes in the hood, not all received them or a small % un able to read them. We need to break up into teams and pick a street or two, and go door to door. The info about the voting needs to be available in the top four languages spoken in this community. Once you made contact you give each person, family or couple, lets say 16 yrs and over a card to take to when voting, like the system they use in regular election day. The name with the most votes wins. No we should not dictate the names or assume that people are stupid that they will pick a bad name, thing they are a bunch of hillbillies and unable to vote a proper name.
No computers, not everyone has one, especially seniors who are residents of this community. Jack

So Jack are you volunteering

So Jack are you volunteering to get the information translated into the top four languages in the area?

Wait to hear about the new process of the voting, First

To who ever wrote this, I wish people would start to use their real name. I will be availble to help with door knocking, if it gets to that point. But I want to hear what happened in the meeting with the new details on the voting process. As far as the translation goes, was donated to us by foodshare. But you might want to ask Adam's office??? I don't mind knocking on doors and doing my bit, if it gets to that point. But will wait to hear the details first??

Google Translation Works

Just use Google translation online. Its easy and fast and pretty much 100% perfect. I have used it and had Portuguese neighbors review and they found no problems. It takes a second to translate into pretty much every language there is.

Thanks for your input Scott

Thank you for your very detailed input Scott. I am honestly getting fuzzed out and reading your long list of suggestions, my question is who will want to take your suggestions and make them happen? I am seriously thinking that I've done my fair share thus far and will be very happy to let others take over and run with your suggestions?

Will you be willing to do the extra work for make your list of suggestions happen more "democratically" if you feel the current process is so unfair? As you say, more volunteers are needed.

Getting fuzzed out.

Maybe this is a better idea

Maybe this is a better idea


My proposal was just a feeler and by no means a perfect plan. And of course its a lot of work. My intent was to try and move the yardsticks and see if anybody else has any ideas about making this process better.

As somebody who ran a large community festival for 3 years I understand how tiring this stuff is and everybody is a critic, in this case I am the critic. So thank you and the FB folk for all the time you have invested.

1.What if you just extended the nomination a week so we can all send extra emails out to get as many names nominated and as many involved.

2.Announce the panel who will reduce the names to a workable 3 top names (they would exclude any name that there is legal issues with or is a joke name or is unworkable (like 78 letters long) based on their experience, and of course there would be locals on the panel too.

3. Then have a community vote, in order of preference, on those 3 names. The names use a weighted system and a winner is announced. This vote happens in March the same way the nominations are happening right now. You add in some help from the councilor to distribute and publicize the second vote and you ask for volunteers to "talk to their block" to get people out for the vote.

This is the simplest version I can think of where residents will actually pick the name.

In this simple version you have have improved the vote and possibly the numbers of voters without scrapping any of the work done to date.If FB could bend in this direction Naomi and I would be the first to commit to canvassing our block for a second vote and to sit on a volunteer committee to make sure that every block gets canvassed.

First time I heard this

Vic, Yesterday was the first time I heard that the name will be choosen by other then the majority(residents). The other thing is regardless if I attend the meetings or not, there are many who live in the catchment area, about 15,000 strong who didn't attend the meetings but still have a voice, it's called fairness, giving all a voice.

Vic, you can't advertise and tell people to vote for a name for their community and then say, sorry the final decision will be made by a panel. The final word and decision should be made by residents and residents only, just like the way we elect politicians, the ones with the more votes wins, regardless if we like the person or not, you live with it. The process should apply the same.

The other thing is why go through all this, then turn around and say, well people can call this community what they want. What about promoting, identy and the other stuff we heard and read in the media. I thought the whole objective according to Kevin/Fuzzy was to give the community a name, so everyone will known where they live. To me I like the Junction Triangle, but what ever the majority chooses, we live with it. Jack

Fuzzy Meeting Jan 14

Hi Kevin,

We will be advertising this in our parent council newsletter which should reach approximately 220 +.


hey why not change your name to cabbage patch kids