Demographics and Languages

Since the topic of neighbourhood demographics and spoken languages has come up many times on this site, usually leading to off-topic conversations, I decided to create a separate forum topic here.

So, please use this forum to discuss all of your demographic, language, and census issues.

A couple of starting points:

There are probably more statistics to be found on the Statistics Canada website, if you search around on there.

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As well I have attached current information

I only reason I mentioned what I did is when Irmina mentioned myth. I am starting to wondering if it's just denail and not excepting the truth. All you need to do is look around ward18/davenport and you can see and hear all that I mentioned. You don't need to read the paper to know many people in this riding can't speak or write englsih. I guess you have your opinion and I have mine.

The issue is misreading the stat tables

Jack, no one is denying that
1. drop out rates are decreasing overall across the country
2. there is a high drop out rate among certain cultural groups

The focus here is you overstating your personal antidotes that the majority of people in Ward 18 cannot speak or read English based on YOUR MISREADING of statistics tables from the City of Toronto AND Statistics Canada web sites. Both sources, as Vic and I have pointed out, clearly state that the majority of residents in Ward 18/Davenport understand English.

The issue is you using the word been a myth

For your information I didn't misread anything. These numbers were given to me from someone who works at Stats Canada. All I did was record the information down. The issue for me Irmina, is you using the word myth. Regardless what the numbers are, there are residents in this ward18/davenport and accross the city, that can't read, write or speak english and it should be people like our elected officals, ourselves who have taken on the role as a community whatever you want to call to ourselves and reach out to those residents and inform them to what is going on in our community.

For me I don't need numbers to reach out to people, to me residents are residents. I will try my best to reach out to as many residents as I can. JF


I'm quite surprised with the part of the report documenting the education of residents in our area:

Page 3:

Residents in the study area are more highly educated than the general public, with 44.6% having received a university certificate or degree, as compared to 37.4% across the City.

...the demographic information for the study area indicates that the area is home to a diverse and well-educated population comprised of young singles and couples, families with young children and seniors.

This should help put an end to the myth that the majority of Junction Triangle residents cannot speak or read English.

RE: Should help put an end to the myth

Like Scott D said, shape of the study does not really reflect JT very well, i agree. I picked out a few ramdom things that I feel weren't exactly true. Campbell park for example, does not have a ball diamond any more like this study said. There is a few more food banks out there that weren't mentioned and a few more thing that were wrong. I am not sure if they really done their home work??.

As far as what Irmina mentioned about putting a end to the myth that the residents cannot speak or write english. The info I got from Statistic Canada said something different. Also the residents on Lansdowne would agree with me too. they done there own study. SEE BELOW

Statistic Canada:
Census#0098.00 when using my postal code M6P-3W3, living on symington ave south of wallace. The info I received and this covers an area of 9284.0 sq km. The sample they gave me with a Population of 6,666 people.
Mother tongue language spoke only the language, see below.
-2,455 spoke english only
-1,410 spoke portuguese only
-385 '' '' Spanish
-250 '' '' Italian
-250 '' '' Vietnamese
-205 '' '' Cantanese
-200 '' '' Tagalo
-75 '' '' Chinese
-10 people can speak both F/E
-80 people speak French only

Irmina, there are many people who don't speak english or write english in the JT, better now then what it use to be. The Toronto Star just recently had a big write up in there paper about this exact issue and specifically speaken about the portuguese community. It's no secret Davenport riding has the highest , high school drop out rate and also a high illiteracy issues, specifically among the portuguese community. Believe me it's no myth?? JF

Reading the statistics


You're definitely reading and interpreting the statistics incorrectly. Let me make a few points:

  • "Mother Tongue" is different from "only language spoken". For example, English is not my mother tongue, nor is it my "first language", and in the past it was definitely not "Language spoken most often at home". But that doesn't mean that I don't understand English.
  • You said "2,455 spoke English only". That is incorrect. The 2,455 figure is for English as a mother tongue.
  • Check the "Knowledge of Official Languages" section. This shows English Only = 5,380, plus English and French = 600. Total = 5980. That's 90% of the total population.

More details at Statistics Canada.

More Relevant Stats

It would also help Jack if you brought yourself up-to-date on other stats. The high school dropout rate has dropped in half in the last decade While the City of Toronto lags behind the province in completion rates, the TDSB has committed to reaching the provincial average of 85% by the end of the 2010/2011 school year You do a real disservice by stating old information and stigmatizing both the neighbourhood and particular cultural groups with information that is just wrong.

I think you're reading the stat tables incorrectly, again

We've had this discussion before about reading statistics tables:

Moreover, please provide accurate links when you're discussing things that you're quoting from online.

Re: Scott's comment, I stand corrected. Thanks Scott.

Interesting Study

Most people speak English and use the internet and everybody knows that BUT the shape of the study does not reflect Junction Triangle very well as it includes upper High Park and the entire Glenlake area, both of which are not demographically the same as JT and probably tilt things in a different direction. This map is looking at the large effect on a major intersection of which JT is just a small part. I would have included at least to Lansdowne on the north end and would not consider the stats in this study to reflect the uniqueness of JT.


Its not often that I reply to myself but.... my point was understood but at the same time it is my experience that English is understood by the vast majority of people, or their children, in the JT area. Today newcomers are often the most educated and internet savvy people around too. The world is a far more connected place than it was even 25 years ago and online translation and the rise of "Globalish" (people already have an understanding of what they call global English before they immigrate) means that people don't have the language barriers that they once did. And people like me through things like KIVA know more about the rest of the world than ever before. The world changes and JT changes with it.