Campbell Park dump cleaned up.....almost
As you probably already know and have even possibly experienced in one way or another, Campbell Park was used as a temporary garbage dump during the recent City of Toronto workers strike.
The "garbage strike", as it was often referred to, lasted for just over one month, and our local rink at Campbell Park was used as a temporary dump site for approximately two weeks starting around July 16th. A group of residents calling themselves Friends of Campbell Park protested the use of Campbell Park as a dump.
Over the August long weekend, City Staff finally hauled the garbage away and started to clean up the rink. However, people are reporting that the site is still contaminated with the sticky leftovers of two weeks worth of garbage runoff.
Since I was away and unable to truly experience the effects of this strike on Campbell Park myself, I will leave it up to these media / blog / photo links to tell the story. If you have any of your own stories or comments about how this strike affected our neighbourhood, please feel free to share them in the comments below.
Media / Blog Links:
- Protests mark opening of new temporary dumps, CTV, July 16 2009
- Residents upset with three new dump sites, Toronto Star, July 16 2009
- Residents to protest Campbell Park dump site, The Villager / Inside Toronto, July 16 2009
- New Day, New Dump Sites, CityNews, July 16 2009 (With video)
- Campbell Park anti-dumping protest: it was a circus, Michael's Bloor-Lansdowne Blog, July 17 2009.
- Photos from Thursday's protest at Campbell Park, Michael's Bloor-Lansdowne Blog, July 19 2009
- Park fans trash dump-free CNE, Toronto Sun, July 21 2009
- Campbell Park garbage protesters chain selves, CTV, July 22 2009
- Clean up our park: Residents, Toronto Sun, July 28 2009
- Garbage pickup resumes as some steamed over dumps, CTV, August 4 2009
- Garbage gone but contamination fears remain, The Villager / Inside Toronto, August 6 2009
A few more photo links on Flickr:
- Campbell Park Garbage Park, by Martin Reis
- The Big Clean-up, by Martin Reis
- TOStrike - Human Chain, Friends of Campbell Park, by Himy Syed
Comments
Advancing Dialogue
Hi All,
It looks like there may be a debate brewing between community composting VS incineration. To keep keep things in perspective, lets all keep in mind that right now this subject is merely a DISCUSSION. A hypothetical situation where we can hatch out theories. WE ARE BRAINSTORMING.
I've started a new topic forum for civil debate. Over at the other page, I have listed some questions to consider as a group regarding community composting VS incineration. It would be wonderful if as many people as possible can contribute. As the saying goes, "many heads are better than one".
Please go to the forum at https://www.junctiontriangle.ca/node/361
See you all there!! (i hope...) :-)
That's true, however, the
That's true, however, the kinks would certainly have to be worked out. But what other alternative do we have in this matter. Yes I guess garbage would have to be pick up that's a given. And God forbid another strike......there I spelled is correctly. But eventually we may have no other choice but to incinerate our garbage.
Now to the few who think I am a fraud, the same could be asked of many of you who use Dupont, Antler. Don't mess with me.
I love the sweet chirp of
I love the sweet chirp of passive aggressive posts. I love the world but don't mess with me. And to everyone a goodnight. : )
There you go again, you never
There you go again, you never stop. I guess your time out didn't teach you anything. Oh well, some people never learn.
Irmina, I like your Idea of a
Irmina, I like your Idea of a community composting. The question is were to put one. It would have to be a large unused plot of land. I don't know if a park would be a good idea but for now I think we could be onto something. I for one have tried to compost and after 2 years my compost never broke down. I don't know what I was doing wrong. I layered it with leaves, kitchen waste, earth, some water and nothing. I also think that the commumity should be encouraged to try to compost. Not everyone can and we have to take that into account. I also read somewhere that a pilot garbage incineration project in Durham is going to take place. Not to sure when, but I was interested to learn more. It appears that when garbage is burned at an extremely high temp. There is 0 part per million into the atmosphere. That garbage is burned into electric energy in which 20 households benefit. Therefor 20 less households on the electric grid. If that is true, how exciting. I also read that this technology is used in other parts of the world. Anyway that's my input on this matter.
Incineration does not help
I also like the idea of local composting projects. I had no idea that the City had a program for it (Thanks for the link, Irmina!). I wonder if that kind of program would accept items that can't go into my backyard composter (meat, bones, etc.). That would be fantastic if I didn't have to truck away any compostable waste at all.
As for incineration....I'll repeat what I wrote earlier:
Unless you plan on putting an incinerator within a very short walk of everyone's home, then you will still require garbage pickup.
2 way Street
From where im sitting the "dirt" was dished out from both sides. I wouldn't call out only two people - ALL OF US HAVE BEEN RUDE (me included).
I can't believe how blown out of proportion this has become. We need more bandwidth, these comments are wearing down the server.
Irmina: thats a great idea. Im looking at doing some composting in my own backyard. There was a story on this in the Star during the strike for residences close to Dundas/Bathurst ie Scadding Court. The community there 1st did it in 2002 during the 1st garbage strike - it was popular. However, this time around the Ontario Gov't shut them down.
Links:
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/661836
http://www.scaddingcourt.org/publication/pdflibrary/Press%20release_temp...
Anyhow I like the idea and I think people would participate or at least have an alternative.
Ranajit
OK FOLKS enough is enough.
OK FOLKS enough is enough. The last 2 blogs make some sense and it's a good start. I am more concerned with the way some of you are abusing some of the residence, mainly those who call themselves "Friends of Campbell Park". I am OK with their answer as to why they did what they did. I saw the news clippings, yea there was yelling but I heard someone say, "Shame Mr. Mayor". I was there one night and I saw a women crying in the arms of another women and said she was afraid for the children now with the soil contaminated and she couldn't enjoy her front yard anymore. I really felt for her. I saw residence incuraging people to take their trash home for one night in support of what that community was trying to do. They did what they had to do to put pressure on whoever to stop the strick and give back the park to the community. Let's face it folks, this will happen again and the city needs to rethink were the trash will be dumped. I totally get it. They lived next door or behind and across the street from the park. I have been there twice and the second time I dropped off my trash I thought I was going to "lose my cookies". Is this making any sense to any of you?
Kevin and Scott you are the worst of the bunch the rest of you coming in a close second. I found your comments to that bunch rude, abusive and hurtful. You call Virginia a queen and Jack the king. You are all way out of line. They have done good for this community but because of your prejudice toward them you haven't been allowing yourselves to see their side. There are a small hand full and do not speak for the rest of us. Kevin and Scott you refer to some of the people from Friends of Campbell Park as bullies. From were I sit it is both of you who are bullies and have antagonized these people. You both are school-yard bullies and try to provoke people into childish dialogue. You have resorted to name calling yourselfs like the"Boogeyman Outed" or "Ugly Face" or Reign of terror". You were both wrong or anyone else who has called these people names...that is rude and hurtful. You talk about respect yet you are disrespectful. You should be made to apologize for your behavior. Really boys grow up! You have both and others slandered their good names. I am sure that one can beprosecuted for slander even in this form.
I don't know quite frankly why you pick on this small group of people...as you refer them as gropies. But don't you think it's time to move on? Kevin and Scott go to your corners and have a time out. Then come back and apologize.
Strange Coincidence Beth
Beth I just can't get over what a strange coincidence it is that you, BrockD and Campbell all misspell the word strike the same way ("strick"). Could it be that you are playing games here? Reveal yourself imposter!
I meant strike. When you type
I meant strike. When you type sometimes you don't always catch your mistakes.
Imposter Outed
Beth, are you speaking here as Beth, Campbell or BrockD? The letters are not even close on the keyboard, so how is it that the same misspelling (strick) is showing up in all these postings? You are a total fraud!
My friend, don't start with
My friend, don't start with me. My letter to all of you have I think touched a raw nerve. When you type quickly and thoughts race through your head faster then you can type them yea, you will make a mistake. Don't start with me.
We Return to Regular Programming
Why not just come clean and end the farce? Beth, Brockd and Campbell are all one and the same person. Incapable of justifying the circus act, now you resort to underhanded tactics. Who put you up to this nonsense?
Community Composting
Hi All,
I was just looking into the City of Toronto web site and found this:
http://www.toronto.ca/compost/comm.htm
It's about starting a community compost program. So next time, if there is a garbage strike, we can put our green bin waste somewhere. It describes how to get a compost committee together -- yes I know, another committee but many hands make light work.
Just a suggestion...
This is great!
Seeing grown ass people argue - lol
So, have we handed out any awards or came to a conclusion yet?
As for what will happen in 3 years. Not sure, but I think the city will a change this practice of using parks. Also, I strongly believe privatization will be a major platform issue for all hopefuls that are running in Nov 2010.
Last week the City has already asked the auditors to compare costs with privatization.
I won't hold my breath on this, but come 2012 we all may have to, once again (hope not).
Ranajit
I feel that we could get the
I feel that we could get the city to agree that they need to come up with a contingency plan for next time. I never disagreed with the protest but like I said before, once I saw how it was being conducting I refused to participate in that. We should get the city to agree that our parks are for the children and if a strike happens again our parks will not be used, plain and simple. As for the reduction in garbage, the garden at Rankin could have been used for composting, like they did at Scaddingcourt, if it existed.
Food for Thought
There are two kinds of people, those who do the work and those who take the credit. Try to be in the first group; there is less competition there.
- Indira Gandhi
Looking towards the future
Plan B for a Future Garbage Strike
Let's try and brainstorm a Plan B, if out of our control, the City decides to use Campbell Park rink again, as a dump site. We know in another three or so years there WILL be another strike.
My two cents: we use our community web site forum to discuss issues as to how to act as a community to get our point across to the City.
What would our plan B be? Anyone else?
Public Meeting Conduct
1. What sort of conduct should WE as a community find acceptable during public meetings?
2. How do WE as a group react when one or two people escalate an issue to shouting and name-calling?
3. How do we calm things down so that BOTH SIDES are heard and the issue at hand doesn't become a win or
lose situation?
4. How do WE as a group encourage COMPROMISE?
The future starts now
John,
Thanks for bringing this thread back on-topic.
It's too early to say that "there WILL be another strike" in three years. A strike needs to be avoided, so contract negotiations need to start long before the threat of a strike comes around.
That said...another strike is certainly a possibility, whether in three years or at some other future date.
I would suggest that we don't just plan for what happens if there's a strike, but start planning now to get everyone to minimize the amount of garbage they create, and reduce the amount of stinky green bin waste we throw out. I know I'm dreaming, but I would love to see a future where if there was another garbage strike and they decided to use our parks as dumps again, there wouldn't be any garbage to throw in them...so they would remain empty...without all the protesting and shouting. Really, this shouldn't be that difficult to accomplish if everyone actually put some effort into it. Here's where we start, and you'll see that most of it revolves around composting:
Of course, I would never expect everyone to turn around and produce zero waste starting now. I'm nowhere near that myself. But with a bit of effort from everyone, a bit of help amongst ourselves, and then some extra effort when a strike may happen, we should easily be able to keep our parks clean. Compostables are already taken care of at home, "garbage" is minimized and can be stored a bit longer, recyclables are clean.... shouldn't be a big deal to store for a bit of extra time.
Less garbage, green-bin waste, and recycling means less stinky trucks driving through our 'hood every week. It also means less money spent on landfills and other disposal schemes. Lower taxes. Also...because green bin waste is almost entirely water, which is quite heavy by volume, we would end up saving HUGE amounts of fuel by not carting that stuff around everywhere unnecessarily.
Damn...I sound like a granola-head idealist...but really, this is all simple stuff that anyone should be able to do to help minimize the impacts of a strike.
Time to move on???
This has gotten sooo boring and long in the tooth now. I thought we were going to try and shut this subject down to move on to something else. Yes we know there's a lot of disagreement of the way some members in the community protested about the strike including myself and there is still gripping about the garden but maybe it is time to move on to new pressing issuses rather than everyone repeating themselves or throwing each others comments back at each other endlessly.
The only possible good that might of happened is that some people released some pent up frustation/anger they couldn't express otherwise.
To Kevin and Whatchanacalilt
To Kevin and Whatchanacalilt or who ever you are. You are totaly rude and discrespectful. NO to your question is Friends of Campbell was a priviate group or club how much lower are you going to go. Or do you enjoy getting people upset and if you do, YOU ARE SICK. They were neighbours who lived behind behind the park and butt next to the dump site, On Campbell and Antler. If you lived in the visinity of the park you stupid yahoos you would understand what we were going through. It isn't that we haven't explained it to you, you refuse in your narrow mind to see and understand the truth. I don't know how we can explain to any of you anymore and quite frankly I"m done explanning to a bunch of people who love to complain no matter what anyone does. I watched a clipping from the interview that Virginia and Jack were with the Mayor. The jack-ass that keeps saying that all Jack said was shame is not watching the whole picture. In the clip it has Jack asking the Mayor if he couldn't end the strick would he step down as Mayor. Why don't you watch it and listen this time. By the way, Jack and Virginia were not the only one shouting. We all were. The wreath was simbolic of our feelings we felt that whole 39 days the park was taken away from us. Unless you were directly effected by the strick like the residence who had to endure it once and for all SHUT UP.
Now for the community gardens that some of you hill billys wanted to start. Yes in many ways it was Adam G. who screwed up and also those of you who wanted the garden in the park in the first place. You a angrey at Jack and Virginia for organizing the comminity. In letting them know what was gong on HONESTLY and no FABRICATION. Once reidence saw with there own eyes what was going to happen they rallied together and won the battle fair and square. That's what all this bull-shit is all about. It is your sick way in getting back at both of them for what they did you your garden. The community stood by them 100% and that pisses you all off.
For the record someone blogged about energy should have been spent on the bike trail, and other things. That's fine if you think a bike trail along the railway tracks is a good idea I personnaly think money could be spent on other well meaning things like fixing our infastructure. So everyone lay-off already. The residence on Campbell, Sarina and Antler were the ones that suffered not you. We asked Virgina and Jack to help us in any way and we are most greatful to them. The rest of you I believe I know who some of you are live near Bloor on Campbell and Symington you contiue to life in your own little world and leave good people alone. To Jack Yourwelcome.
BrockD your the one who needs
BrockD your the one who needs to SHUT UP and start to respect others , i saw the clip you keep going on about and your right that question was asked and the mayor ignored it because it was a stupied one any way , instead why not ask if they would make sure the rink would be cleaned peoperly and the grass restored , the very same things you are now complaining about , you have no problem being a bully because your hiding behind a made up name but if you were face to face with who has been writing on this forum you would be quite, in the end we are all up set that the strike went as it did and that all communities had there parks turned into dumps but your all missing the most important part of this strike had nothing to do with any stupied garden or the garbage it had to do with the fact that our kids lost out on alll there summer activities and that parents had no day care or day camps but no one talks about that now do they , or how the seniors in the community had to use budle buggies to get to the dumps and when they got there people decided to tell them off
and for your iinformation i live closer to campbell park then jack or virginia so stop shooting your mouth off about those that are complaining live near symington and bloor ....last time i checked so does jack.
On internet forums
I disagree that internet forums with anonymous posting are part of the problem. Technically the internet gives you the opportunity to consider your words more carefully than you might otherwise. Many people do not take advantage of this opportunity. I choose to sign in and stand behind my words - they will often be wrong but I am not looking to deny them. Other people do not. This may help them overcome concerns they may have about expressing themselves - that's okay.
Even if you continue to post anonymously, I would encourage you write your thoughts out first, walk away and reconsider them for a moment, use a spell check, and please Capitalize Proper Names.
BrockD is extremely unlikely to read this and think: "This is true, I AM the one who needs to shut up." A more carefully crafted message is likely to have a much greater impact.
This is just the musing of a lunatic, no reason to take it seriously.
I agree totally with John
I agree totally with John there are ways of getting your point across with out all the drama that you all created at campbell park , But it's obvious you know no better by the manner in how you attacked everyone in your rude manner ,
There will be no end to the disagreement
Nice very nice. Name calling AND with a very threatening tone. You can defend without having to name call with a bullying tone. That is what whatchamacallit was trying to explain. The very frenzied anger that happens. What part of the word compromise is hard to understand? The tone once again is very much, winners or losers.
BTW, if one puts themselves up as very pubic figures, then like politicians one must expect to be questioned on what they do publicly. It is NOT o.k. do what you want and not expect a backlash.
Plus, no one is saying there shouldn't have been a protest, again it is the manner in which it was done. If you were all shouting at innocent people, using the dump, who had nothing do with the strike happening, then you are ALL responsible for giving off a thuggish environment.
Are you saying that it is acceptable to name call, to shout at people and to get your point across in a very thug-like way, but god forbid if other people question such behaviour? Because, Brock D. that's what your comment sounds like.
No that's not what I am
No that's not what I am saying. You get to a point were no matter what anyone says you refuse to see it. I am fustrated in having to explain our actions to you or anyone else for that matter. Someone needs to shake some common sense into all of you. The Friends of Campbell stand by for what we did. And if you wanted to get into the spotlight you should have come over there was plenty of coffee to go around.
Thank you for responding in kind
Thank you Brock D. for responding in kind. We would have loved to have helped with the protest and to discuss other ways we could have gotten the point across that you and your neighbours near the dump site was and still are frustrated. But that didn't happen, all past talk regarding informing the community about events that affect us all did not happen, unless I was one of those people who did not read their mail properly and a flyer was sent out and I missed it.
Perhaps we can turn this discussion around now and ask for other people's input in how to get across the frustrations to our local government of living with the current smell and what suggestions for plans should another strike happen in a few years. We as a community should come up with a contingent plan for the future that will not blame innocent people who want to use any future dump site in our area.
:-)
Let's start with you Brock D., what would you suggest our community do if, out of our control, the city decides to use Campbell Park rink as a dump site again? What would our plan B be? Anyone else? Me, I got nothing right now...
Make less garbage
I think Vic already had an excellent suggestion about making less garbage.
If we put our minds to it I bet that could make a far bigger difference than you might think.
Perhaps we could start a series of brainstorming threads starting with "Garbage September" where we could share ideas about how we could avoid making as much garbage as we are used to making.
Hi Brock D/ Campbell. Let me clarify
Hi Brock and Campbell
This is not about Campbell Park or the Strike. This is about a couple of things:
1) About 2 yrs ago, a group of residents on campbell south of Wallce wanted a community garden, which was great, but what had happened and thanks to councillor Gimbrone and Food share, been so passionate about community gardens. Decided it was okay to take a very healthy and used park, been taken away from children, ordinary adults, daycare, dogwalker and so. Decided it would be okay to take and make 3/4 of the park a community garden, not sharing the park, but make it one big gardens, from 8 plots, now was 35 to 40 plots. There is so much more to explain, the lies,manipulation and making up things, but I'm skipping along. The residents decided to ask Adam for another revote, since he started this shit we wanted a fair community meeting, with a proper community consultation. And which ever the majority went, it would decided the fate of the park. Two things happened that night, one, the community was now divided, thanks to Adam, and that the majority of the community was against a garden. Now those who wanted the garden have been bitter since.
2) The other thing I find is. Some individuals and I mean, some. If you don't conform or believe in a certain groups way or ideology, you are an out cast and that makes you different. A group of us decided to speak against the dumping of garbage and spraying of pesticide and soforth. We are these bad people, we never said we represent the community, we were a group of residents called, FRIENDS OF CAMPBELL PARK. We have had many people thanking us for speaking out, I have emails and letters from professionals and ordinary citizens thanking us and to continue to speak out, which we did. It has only been a few people talking trash, which means squat to me. I/We will continue to speak out,, when we feel it's nesscessary to do so. So you can continue to talk trash, which means nothing to me. Thanks Campbell and Brock for trying to clarify things not for Virginia and me, but for the truth. Jack
Weak Explanations
Jack: For a guy who didn't want this to go back and forth, you seem to be having trouble letting a difference of opinion go.
Can you tell all of us if Friends of Campbell Park is a community group or a private club? It can't be both. Did the Friends of Campbell Park hold a public meeting to discuss a strategy in response to the closing of the outdoor hockey rink temporarily at Campbell Park? And for the third time, could you tell us did the police really threaten you or members of your non-group community group with arrest if you didn't stop preventing residents from depositing their garbage at the temporary site?
I'm also wondering if you agree with Campbell (who has done little more than resort to name calling here on your behalf) when she says "that the city always picks on communities that have a high ethnic, and social background and you will never see Rosedale or Forest Hill parks getting garbage dumped?" And finally, do you think there are other ways to communicate ideas without playing the victim? (as you are doing here and everytime you seek media attention)
The police did speak to Jack
And for the third time, could you tell us did the police really threaten you or members of your non-group community group with arrest if you didn't stop preventing residents from depositing their garbage at the temporary site?
On the first day of the protest, police told Jack and his supporters not to block traffic on Campbell. The same day police told Jack and his supporters not to block the entrance to the dump. On another day, police pulled Virginia aside after she got into an argument with a CUPE picketer. The picketer was pulled aside separately. In this case, I would say the picketer was more to blame. The day after Jack and his group chained themselves to the entrance of the dump, a police sergeant pulled Jack aside for a private conversation about the incident. I haven't quite answered your question, but that's what I saw.
If you want to interpert what
If you want to interpert what you saw rather then what you heard then that's your falt. No police never threaten to arrest anyone. Police spoke to the women who took the garbage from another person. Police never told Jack not to block residence from dumping their garbage infact it was about a another matter that Jack and 11 division were working on before the strike. Police asked Virginia what was wrong. After talking to both the picketer and Virginia, Virginia stayed with the officers and watched the picketer bully residence. Police spoke to Jack yes but not threateening with arrest. For the record police allowed the protest to go for 1 hour and then they had to remove the chains from the fence. From were I stood the police in a shy way had a small grim on their face. Far from a threatening force I would say. I was there I saw and I heard you didn't, so that end that discussion. You are all grasping at straws just to make us look bad. I think those who read this for the first time will see how negitive and petty some people are.
A police officer warned Jack
BrockD wrote:
If you want to interpert what you saw rather then what you heard then that's your falt.
You might want to reread my first message. I didn't offer any interpretation. I reported what I saw. Here's more detail.
The day after Jack and Virginia chained themselves to the entrance I was at Campbell Park with Jack. I was teasing him about being a lawbreaker. A police sergeant approached Jack. I pointed to Jack and said as a joke, "There's the criminal, officer. Arrest him" However, the sergeant wasn't in a joking mood. He asked to speak to Jack privately. Afterwards I asked Jack if the sergeant had warned him not to chain himself up again. Jack confirmed that's what the officer said. I wasn't listening to the conversation, but I did overhear the officer tell Jack "No more stunts." That's what happened.
As for Virginia, I merely reported what I saw. Virginia and a CUPE picketer were arguing. The police pulled the picketer over for a chat. Then the police pulled Virginia over for a chat. I don't know what was said.
This has gotten way out of
This has gotten way out of hand. To Brock D and Campbell thank you
for trying to clarify some fact which I see will never get resovled because they don't want them resolved but continue pushing all the wrong bottons so that you will snap. Those of us that were there know what happened and we will leave it at that.
I most clarify something that Campbell said about me and the Dupont Library. I was on a library board but with Annette back in the 70"S and not on Dupont. Sorry Gail for that misunderstanding. And your tone towards Campbell wasn't very nice.
To the issue of the quote in the I think it was NOW magazine. Jack never said kids don't like their vegetables. He was refering to the older children not liking their park converted into a big farm yard. Stop using that when you are cornered and need a way out.
As for the police, Yes the police spoke to Jack but only because the Mayor put presure on the chief of police to not allow us to do that again. They Mayor didn't want other communities to do the same he felt it would make him and the union look bad. Which reminds me, as for me, well lets clear something up, the picketer and myself went head to head on the way he was bullying and intimidating people who were dropping off their garbage. I saw an elderly man who just stepped out of his car and got his garbage our of the car. The picketer blocked the gentleman and yelled at him to drop his garbage right were he was standing and told the managers" OK you bunch of Shits pick up the garbage." I went over the the picketer and warned him not to do that again. The elderly man was scared and I stepped in to block the picketer from doing it again. The police came and asked me what had happened I explained the managers also explained and the picketer was told not to do it again. Police were then watching him carfully.
I have come to realize something. In other areas of the city. You had people sreaming at union and residence who were dumping their garbage in other parks. The last of the parks that opened, neighbours blocked either side of the road blocking people from dumping their trash there is no mention of thatby any of you, WHY? I have come to realize that it's not the park or the protest the neighbourhood did, it's all about a small group of people who are piss off at Jack and I for blocking your garden. This is your way at getting back at us. I hate to tell you folks it really makes you look foolish. This form will contiue as long as those trying to defend it keep writting. So Campbell and Brock lets not give them anymore gossip and lets enjoy the rest of the summer.
your not one to talk about
your not one to talk about ones tone towards any body seeing that you have made some rather rude comments to many in the community forum... funny how fast you cleared that up once you realized you were caught in taking credit for something you had not done
The Dump is just one example
It started about the way you treated fellow residents at the dump which is just the latest in a string activities where you two have tried to shout down everybody who you don't agree with or to slander them with by calling them "newcomers" or talk about gentrification. We see it written here and we have all heard it at meetings over and over again. As somebody else said its about your methods. And in this case and others mentioned your methods were appalling and created nothing but bad press and hysteria. Thats because you two are into building things or creating consensus your only into marching around in mobs as self appointed king and queen of the hood. Meanwhile tons of other worthwhile projects quietly move ahead making a real difference one small step at a time. Never seen any of you at any of those meetings.
This forum has really provided a unique window into your divisive methodology; the reason why both of you never seem to last in a group longer than two weeks before you quit or storm out calling names. Every involved person in this community has at least one "Jack or Virginia story" as you two have scorched the earth from one end of the community to the other over the years. We can see here the more one starts to look at your statements the more one starts to find inaccuracies or things that are not exactly as you claim. And you start to hear others voices that have not been heard before speaking up for this community and telling what really has been going on and what people really want to work on.
A healthy community doesn't need your kind of negative energy and thats why you find more people to be mad at every day because more and more you are part of the problem not the solution. The community is moving pretty much together in the same direction these days but somehow you two are only imaginary captains.
Boogeyman Outed!
Thank you Scott for your summation. You have made the case perfectly! Many people in this neighbourhood want the reign of terror to end. No more more name-calling, bullying and displays of sheer ignorance. We have seen it all here. The boogeyman has been outed! Let's hope this is the last time it shows its ugly face and residents can get on with making a great place to live and raise children and even better neighbourhood through discussion and cooperative efforts.
If you call going to a
If you call going to a meeting were you discuss changing railway lines along Dundas of changing the name of a commuity or other things no thanks Jack and I have to many things on the go in and out of this community. People have invinted us for our input. As for the boogyman. To bad you can't see me laughing. Again it shows your imature behaviour. The old saying STICKS AND STONES WILL BREAK MY BONES BUT NAMES WILL NEVER HURT ME. Nice try folks you lose.
So Long and may the force be with you.
Where is compromise in your universe?
Again it's a win or lose, in your face attitude. I don't think that helps your case as the woman for the common people.
clarification
Are you talking to me? It looks like a reply to my post, but I'm not sure.
Sorry Warren
But I don't think your name sounds like a woman's name. The reply wasn't for you.
May the force be with you
Virginia: I think you are trying to be conciliatory here. Earlier you tried to remind Scott that you are a loving person, and this is good. It is important also that these things not come across as incongruous. This may seem to be a frivolous point for me to make, but this is an open forum, it reflects and shapes the culture of the community. I couldn't say to someone "I love you but I will not listen to what you say." I wouldn't sound loving, I would sound crazy. To tone down this discussion all parties need to respond to the message of the other parties. Well intentioned people are starting to take things far out of hand. Look at BrockD below. When he says “leave good people alone” he is dividing the community into good people and presumably bad people. He's trying to stand up for his friends, but he's gone way too far. I thought it was funny Scott took a shot at you over not answering questions. You know that he will never answer questions about the clean train thing. The whole thing rests on ignoring the pollution saved by having fewer cars; which is justified by a ridiculous assumption that the trains would be empty. Well, that's not the point. But neither is a name change or any boogeyman. The issue is way people in the community relate to each other. Earlier in the thread an anonymous poster stated: "Frankly it doesn't matter what you say or think.” This statement perfectly epitomises the problem. But anonymous people are not going to solve anything. I am addressing you because I believe you are looking for reconciliation. I think we should agree that before we stage publicity stunts we should raise issues here. Unless there is a better place. And, more importantly we should agree that we should respect and try to understand the positions we do NOT agree with. Don't get me wrong. I am strongly in favor of vigorous disagreements and ridiculous publicity stunts. But our voice will always be stronger when we can speak together. To do that we need to speak to and listen to each other. Many of these issues are not as divisive as they may seem. I know tories who are gardeners and socialists who support public transit for instance. And for the life of me I can't think of any legitimate reason garbage would divide people across any particular lines.
SCOTT: I would like you to make the same agreement. At the top of this discussion you implied that the garbage was not an important issue. I think you were trying to provoke a discussion that might clear the air. If so, mission accomplished. However you knew it is an important issue to some people and we can not set a president that it is appropriate to hijack a discussion like that.
I am not trying to make friends, I am only trying to be even handed. Probably the only one here who truly doesn't care if they speak for anyone else.
Good night.
Hey Warren here is your answer
Nobody has asked me about Clean Train and there is already information about it elsewhere on this site so I am not sure what you are talking about.
FYI the Medical Officer of Health today came out with very strong opposition to dirty diesel trains. Given that diesel is more polluting than other forms of exhaust which has scientifically been proven, that this will remain in our soil for years and years, that everybody else is going electric (why? ), I am inclined to trust the MO of BOH. There are some other links to see here too.
I don't want this community to return to the toxic brew it was when an alternative public transit exists right now. Vancouver 2009 system; Toronto 1909 system. Question answered.
You talk of the truth but do
You talk of the truth but do not provide it yourself. You said in your past message that you knew nothing of Food Share being involved but mention it here. And as you know, the garden was only going to take up 1/8 to 1/4 of the park not 3/4 like you said. Adam even offered to have it moved to the south end of the park and it was to be used to provide food for those who you claim to help.
I have pictures if you want me to send them to you
Silent Figure, I can send you pictures of the size of the garden if you want??? Your comments only supports what I have been trying to say, this is about the garden, not about the strike or anything else we done in the past, anything we say or do will be an issue for you. Get over it. Like I said we/i will speak out if we need to. Frankly it don't matter what you say or think.
Go ahead and post those
Go ahead and post those pictures so everyone can see for themselves the truth about the size of the garden. Maybe you also have pictures of the people who took it upon themselves to vandalize city property with hammers and crowbars before the city could correct their mistake. Again you choose to see one side of the issue because not everyone is commenting about the garden. It is not about that. And your comment about you being able to speak but what I say doesn't matter just shows how one sided your tactics are.
Repeating One's Self
To all community residents reading this: let me clear (again), this discussion about Jack/Virginia is NOT about the FoodShare Garden or the garbage strike anymore.
This is about THEIR METHODS in how they hijack an issue and create a mob-like mentality from their supporters rather than listen to compromises.
Jack's latest reply, as above, regarding showing pictures of the planned garden speaks volumes about a win or lose attitude. It says nothing about compromises.
From: http://www.nowtoronto.com/news/story.cfm?content=159916&archive=27,4,2007
" Barker admits to some unfortunately timed miscues.
"The garden was initially dug twice as large as was intended after rain washed away the markings," says Barker. Then, when FoodShare wanted to address community concerns, premature construction of a fence "eroded any trust there may have been." "
The size of the garden was a MISTAKE. A MISTAKE. But rather than hear out the other side, Jack keeps on regurgitating the same ol' argument. He couldn't hear the "truth" over the loud sound of his version of the "truth".
I'll copy and paste my original posting about Jack's methods of getting his point across that are quite malevolent. These are just the public face of some of his actions.
Original posting:
This in NOT about the FoodShare garden. It is about the methods in which you incite people to react.
* Yelling at people and name calling: those people throwing out their garbage in the Campbell Park hockey rink are NOT to blame for the strike and yelling at them, as you yelled during the FoodShare meetings and calling people names assaults. It doesn't further debate on an issue where BOTH sides can be heard.
* Riling people up with anger: the white boards put up in the park for the food garden, after spreading lathering people up in a frenzy, what do you think you'll "encourage" children to write on it. Pleases and no thank yous? A civilized debate where BOTH sides can be heard? Same goes for putting up funeral wreaths in Campbell Park. Creating a charged up atmosphere does not create a two sided debate.
* Stating that the public was NOT informed properly:
If you want to debate public consultation about FoodShare, from this link:
http://www.campbellpark.ca/wiki/wiki.php?n=NeighbourhoodNews.FoodShareGa...
Excerpt from an email from Chris Gallop to Jack, dated August 21, 2007:
"We hand-delivered 500 flyers to the surrounding streets to let people know this garden was being considered and to invite them to the consultation meeting. Volunteers also went door to door on Rankin Crescent to let them know about the meeting. While it's true that some people can't understand English or Portuguese, those two languages are understood by the vast majority of residents. While it's true that only 13 residents attended, we can't force people to attend meetings and every single person who did chose to come supported this project. Over the past three months that we have been working on this project, not a single person has raised an objection with our office to the installation of this garden until now."
500 flyers! You can't force people to read their mail properly. Therefore, yes, one can knock on 200 doors and people will honestly respond that they were not consulted. Volunteers went door to door on Rankin Crescent to let them know about the meeting. Then who is lying? Adam's office? For personal use -- how is a partnership with FoodShare for personal use? Moreover, FoodShare and Adam's office were willing to discuss compromises. This must have been a huge misunderstanding on your part and all those residents who ended up opposing the project?
It's a similar complaint Fuzzy Boundaries heard -- why wasn't the community informed of the first meeting? 5000 postcards were mailed out. You can't force people to look and read through their mail properly.
There are many who do good deeds in this area but do so quietly without fanfare. You and your merry bunch of men and women have been fighting the "good fight" for so long that now it seems you all cannot tell the difference between your friends and your enemies. Perhaps many of these people, myself included, would want to fight the "good fight" along your side but are discouraged due to all the drama and one sided angry atmosphere that is created.
the things i have read here
the things i have read here has made me see how people like to praise themselves ,,,good for you on that,,, but it would be nice to have you be useful on real important issues not a garden
it's time to start having
it's time to start having your voices heard on important issues not just about a garden ,
it's time to start having
it's time to start having your voices heard on important issues not just about a garden ,
I as a rule don't participate
I as a rule don't participate in blogging until now. I am reading everyones blogs and all I can say people are you all NUTS! Were is all this anger around 2 or more people coming from? If my memory serves me right, I don't recall Virginia or Jack or anyother person who spoke on camera refering themselves as spokespersons of the area. Everyone byline was either a resident or "Friends of Campbell Park" That was the brain child of a neighbour of mine, we go their quite frequently because our children play in the park together and it gives the wife a break from the kids.
The anger in some of the emails supprieses me to no end. Campbell, tried to calm everyone down with an explanation. I too was there not all the time, but was apart of some of the planning and activity to put preasure on the City to end this strick. You all could have been apart of it. My daughter was one of the children who was chalking at the wadding pool. There must have been 20 of us who live in and around the parkwho took part willingly in various events. No one EVER tried to make the community look bad. If you remember there was 22 dump sites.
Christie Pits was vocial. I remember watching the news one night and they were in your face with the residence who came to dump their trash at the park. There was Moss park another example. What you saw on TV was all of us asking residence to not dump in our parks so that our children could contiue to play there. Someone bloged that Jack and Virginia were yelling at the neighbours. The night my wife and I were at the park, Virginia spoke to one resident who was crying because she had to indure the stench saying "I'm sorry the city was so thoughtless in were they planned the dumpsite and you have to endure this for God know how long I"m so sorry. The women came to Virginia and they embraced. All of you have taken this way our of proportion. The friends of Christe Pits were there. I met a women from Earlscourt Park there was one other and the location I forget. I don't know quite frankly what the hipe is all about. Come on folks, there is plenty of work in this community without us stabing each other in the backs. We are all adults so lets start acting like adults. Look in the good in people not the bad.
So many questions need answers
Unfortunately, if one reads EVERYTHING from start to finish, there are so many more questions that needs answers. It goes beyond the garbage strike to so many past issues.
I think given what we know of how the process gets hijacked by using anger rather then calm discussions during public meetings, perhaps the next public meeting about ANY new initiatives, WE as a community should be careful not to listen to rumours or half-truths. WE as a community should be prepared to attend a meeting and listen to BOTH sides, even if one side is too busy screaming to let the other side be heard properly. WE as a community should understand that no matter how many flyers, posters, media articles get distributed, there will be others who will always complain that they had no idea that an event was happening. You cannot force people to read their mail properly, doesn't mean that the community wasn't properly informed.
WE need cooler heads during public meetings and that should prevail over all the angry shouting the next time there will be a public meeting over any issue pertaining to our area.
i totolly agree with you
i totolly agree with you finally someone with sence we do need to come together as a community and try to resolve the problems instead of plastering ourselfs on the news
I think we should close this forum Now
I think we should close this forum now as I think it has served it purpose and exposed what needed to be exposed and I think residents can draw their own conclusions. At this point its just becoming biased rants.
why start it then
all of a sudden you want to close the forum , i'm a believer in finishing what you started , you did this in order to get answers to your questions then why not press it instead of ending the forum .maybe with facts not fiction we would have real answers instead of coming up with conclusions that may not be true then maybe the neighbours could come together instead of drifting apart
In closing I will say this.
In closing I will say this. There will always be individuals who never see eye to eye. But when the truth is spoken then enbrase it don't try to distorte the truth to make it sound worse then it is. I always thought that we look for good in people and that the truth is there for the taking. I have offered you the facts no window dressing but pure truth, and no matter how someone tries to explain it to you it gets twisted into what you want to believe. I say that you have had your head in the sand for to long and you need to get some fresh air. Take care my good neighbours I am so done with all of you. I can't say I had fun. I only feel sorry for each of you that live in your small twisted word.
avoiding the subject
it's intresting how you can;t point out what you have actually done for the neighbourhood , all this has been a circus maybe you should realize that people are not agianst Jack and Virgina but against the fact that they feel they speak for everyone who lives in the area , i blame them as much as the media for not talking to more of us in the area , and as for the libary in question Virginia and micheal had nothing to do with that so get your facts straight before you bash anyone, i should know i work at the library in question .
jess
Stop
I have come home from vacation with my family and decided to peek at what the neighbourhood was up to. What the HELL is going on with some of you? I live near the park and I can tell you that no one on the street was happy about the garbage on the street. What piss the neighbours off most of all was no thought process went into planning were garbage would be dumped. The children could not play in the rink which they do. The soccer games went to a different park, and from what I understand, Christie Pits soccer teams came to Campbell because they couldn't use their park. Not to mention the stench from the garbage was unbelievable. Many of the neighbours including myself approached Virgina when we saw the fencing going up. Virginia along with Jack(who I meet for the first time) spoke to all of us that were at the park that day. We pleaded with them to do whatever it took to stop the garbage from coming in.
Virginia remined us that there probably would not be much from stoping it but to put presure on the City to rethink of opening up another dump site at another park.
You have been rotten and mean sperited towards them and I take offence to your constant belittling of both of them. You keep saying that they made the community look bad and all the protest were a circus. My question to all of you is.....Who died and made you judge and jurry? I bet you that you don't even live near the park nor do you know Virginia and Jack well enoughto slam their names to the ground. Someone on this blog wrote..."a temporary problem, to a tempory sallution". I don't know if you have been here today but near the rink were the basket ball net is STINKS. I was told that after the garbage was hulled out both Virgina and Jack were here to walk city and other officals around to make sure the park was back to orginial state. From what the neighbours around here said that they were here quite offen making sure what was promised by the City was done. Were any of you yahoos around supervising the clean-up? I think not. But you are quick to knock them down at first change. Is it envy of not being the one in the spotlight or do you just enjoy bashing people.
I don't know Jack to well but I do know Virginia. I can tell you she would take the shirt of her back to help you. I do know that there was a young mother who had no money to buy food for her family after her husband left her with not money. Virginia took the mother shopping and payed for all her food and anything else she needed until she could apply for welfare. Would you do that? She has worked without fan fare or money to make your community a better place. In some cases the appartments that perhaps some of you may live in. Most of you sound young and think you know it all. Not everything. My husband and I have known Virginia for a great many years. I trust her and her word is sacrad.
Getting back to the garbage. Virginia and Jack were not the only ones protesting, marching or in the media. In many caces they stood back and allowed us to voice our opinions. Both of them broke up would be fights with union and those dumping their garbage in our park. Even the children who lost out on the summer at the park were given a change to let the Mayor know how they felt. Tell me somethng, why are you not bashing Christie Pits? They were the first ones who were vocial. They did nothing wrong but shame the city and the Union. I was told by union members that their union president and brass wanted to go on strike. And of course the Mayor got his streetcars. Guest who lost in this one the community. I and others strongly feel that the presure that both Virginia, Jack and company had a hudge barring on the outcome of the strike.
Ok folks I will leave you now. I don't care what your political offiliation are or what you care to do in your spare time but leave those individuals who care enough to take risks to get the message and the point across. And if you still haven't figured that out, it was because the city and union used our park as a dumping ground with no regards for anyone but their own egos.
Jack and Virginia if you are reading the blog, the community would like to take this opportunity to thank you both for the hard work you do not only during the strike but in everything you do for us.....Don't listen to fools who spend their time being critical and negative.
stop
I can tell that you are Virginas groupie but you need to get you facts straight I have lived in the area for over 37 years and have seen a lot . What they did at Campbell park was a joke , they are so worried about pollution and chemicals left in the ground your talking about something that was there 2 weeks , we have other sites in the area that has chemicals in the ground and the fact that we are going to have all those rains going by causing all that pollution yet I don’t see those two doing anything. I guess because there face wouldn’t be in the media
As for your comment about them talking to the mayor that’s a joke because Jake only said to the Mayor shame seems like that was all he knew how to say all along through this whole thing there was not one direct question asked to the Mayor.
If Virginia helped this woman it is unbelievable that you would even mention that on a blog that many see because that is a very private situation and I‘m sure the woman wouldn’t like everyone knowing , and how dare you say that no one else in the area would step up and help her or anyone else in the same situation .I would like you to tell me what these 2 people have done for our neighbourhood , I personally know the man who is responsible for getting the Perth park up graded to a junior play ground seeing that all it was years ago was a sitting area nothing for the kids to play , he also fought for us to get the symington bus and those lights at the end of symington and Perth so no one would get killed crossing the road he is also the one who got us the Perth Dupont public library but with him he does things but does not go around announcing it .
What took place at Campbell park was a circus there was no need to do what was done including giving the residents a hard time when dropping off garbage and that woman taking pictures of the people dropping it off your extremely luck I was not one of whom she took a picture because I would have taken the film away from her it’s against the law to take pictures of people with out there consent.
Why don’t you tell us some of the things this woman has done if any for the neighbourhood and then maybe people wouldn’t put her down as we do but either way Virginia and Jack have no right to speak on behalf of all the residents of the area
mandy
I have never in my life seen
I have never in my life seen a bunch of people who hate someone because they are vocial. I have lived in this area for the past 52 years. I too have see a lot. Virginia has been active in the community as long as I have known her. She has helped my husband and I on some issues that we had trouble resolving. No I am not one of their groupies. They are good people and deserve our respect. Tell me would you have the gusts to do what they do? You sit in the bleachers and critizise. For your information this man who you refer to was not the only one that worked at bring the library to Dupont. Virginia myself, and a man by the name of Micheal, and others. She worked and still does work with police in getting drugs and guns of our streets. And given an award from the police for her part in crime provention. She doesn't mention that. And as for the lady she helped, that could be anyone.
The night that Jack and Virginia were talking to the Mayor a gas leek on Lansdowne took place and CP24 had to relocate. They both were suppose to speak off and on with him but were only allowed to ask one question. Jack asked the Mayor, if you had your hearing aid on you would have heard what was said "Mr Mayor if the strike doesn't get resolved soon would you consider resining?" I was there I and others heard it. We had asked Jack to ask him that question because quite frankly he sucks as Mayor.
No matter what I or anyone else will say to you or any of those who have put them both down, that is your nature. you are a negitive person. You hate them and will speak badly of them no matter what they do. I saw Virginia and Jack last night at the park and we spoke of the way some of you have been bashing them. They smiled and said we can't please everyone and they have a right to speak. I am not so kind to you. Shame on all of you for the way you have treated them. To all the residence on the street they worked hard to make sure the park is getting cleaned up and safe for everyone. Yes it was two weeks ago but my dear foolish girl it still stinks in some areas of the park and the garbage trucks damaged the ground near the rink. Before you judge anyone please get all your fact in place. I don't know why you are so bitter and angry all the time at people who try to make a difference. But you have got to stop and celebrate life and the people who help not bash them....That in my oppion is so high school.
i have never seen
Please do not judge someone you do not know. I don’t hate anyone for being vocal you can say anything you wish but please do take it upon yourself to speak or make a statement for everyone. My question was not what Virginia has done for you and your husband but what has she done for the neighbourhood .to better it for everyone in the area.
Respect my dear friend is a two way street you must give it in order to get it back .
I have the ability to stand up and fight for what I think is right so don’t assume or accuse me of not doing so just because my face is not all over the media does not mean I sit on the side lines.
I suggest before you write something you , yourself get your facts straight your right this man that I spoke of was not the only one involved he had 2 others work with him on the project BUT not any of who’s names you put down , it’s always easy to take credit for something you have not done. But I guess you didn’t realize I was there when this going on and didn’t see any of you there.
Funny how she was awarded something from the police yet there is no record of it any where that you would find it.
I will keep in mind that If I ever need hearing aids I will ask where you purchased yours ,
I’m by no means a negative person nor do I put anyone down , but I have a problem of people putting down our neighbourhood and making it sound like we are the worst area to live in , and why not try when throwing out a problem having a solution ready .
You have no right to call me foolish , angry or bitter on the grounds that you don’t know me those who had a candle vigil and put wreaths at Campbell as if someone had died and were dressed as a boxer jumping around were the foolish ones our park didn’t die , and even the rink being used as a dump didn’t keep people from playing games there
In closing maybe these people should stop thinking that they are the spoke person for everyone in the area . And instead of avoiding the question answer us and let us know what have they done that has helped the community in a whole not just you and
FOR THE LAST TIME FOLKS, I
FOR THE LAST TIME FOLKS, I didn't say they were the spokes people for the area now did I? Why do you keep saying that when you are presented with the truth? You all seem to be refering to that. I sence a bit of jeliousy in your tone......I wish it we me and not them talking in the linelight. I guess you could have if you had been there. The trucks were there plenty of times. But by the sounds of it you don't live near the park. The kids didn't play at the park.....very little...parents didn't want then near the park because of then spraying. The soccer games only went until Friday and they left they were suppose to have returned by now. My nieghbour said that there were people from the soccer managment office who were drawing lines on the grass. But have not been playing so far.Now you need you get your facts straight.
AGAIN, no one have ever slamed this community down. Where on earth did you get that impression from? Jack I know and even the residence that were interviewed has said that the city always picks on communities that have a high ethnic, and social background and you will never see Rosedale or Forest Hill parks getting garbage dumped. ( there was something posted on the internet from someone who was on the committe who said that when they were choosing the sights, they were picking areas that high consentration of low income and ethnic population. That was so no one could block or stand in their way.) No negitive was ever mentioned. Virgina has often said that the parks were our childrdn play should never been considered and that there are other properties that the city owns that could have been used instead. So tell me how is that negitive. And yes the residence who use that park for one thing or another were in morning again you don't or refuse to see that. You hate anything that makes sence and distorte the truth to fiction. I have come to realize that no matter who tries to explain the true facts to you, you will never believe it anyway because in your head you see something very different. Again their are 10.000 residence and a small handful of unhappy people that complain. By the way how old are you? The library at Dupont was being considered back in the late 70's early 80"s. Yeah, I do know more then you think I know I am 74.
for your info i live closer
for your info i live closer to the park then jack or virgina and you
I have said that I'am going
I have said that I'am going to say to you , as for my age not that i have to tell you but i'm 60 and i was aound when the library was being considered and that's and i personally know those that got it espcially the man that has been spoken of ,
but have a great week and you believe what you wish and i will do the same
thanks G
I’m in no way jealous of
I’m in no way jealous of people who beat there chest when they do something for others. I’m tired of the going back and forward with you in the end if there was anything of substance that these people had done for the community then none of you would have a problem posting it seeing that your quick to judge someone’s character , enough is enough get your facts and your grammar straight before posting any more comments directed at me thank you
I’m in no way jealous of
I’m in no way jealous of people who beat there chest when they do something for others. I’m tired of the going back and forward with you in the end if there was anything of substance that these people had done for the community then none of you would have a problem posting it seeing that your quick to judge someone’s character , enough is enough get your facts and your grammar straight before posting any more comments directed at me thank you
i have to be old enough if i
i have to be old enough if i was involved in the processes of getting the libaray don't you think other wise how would i know who was there
stop
i watched Jack on cp24 talking to the Mayor the only thing he said was shame there was not one direct question to the Mayor second he is a tax payer like all of us but it he doesn't have the right to speak for all of us , between the wreaths and the candles and everything else he and Virginia were doing only made it seem like a circus , it seems to me that if the both of them are getting there faces on tv then they are at the front of the line but other wise no one sees them. so please stop making our neighbourhood sound like the slums they also have no right to be ordering people to take the garbage else where or taking there pictures , and if he was so concerned about people taking there garbage to the transfer station then he sould have offered the use of his van to transport it .
Mandy
Mandy, my poor confused
Mandy, my poor confused child. The candles were in morning of our lost park to you and anyone who dosen't live right by the park or have children who play at the park, the day the fencing went up and the garbage came in was in our eyes a funeral of a family memeber. I feel so sorry for you. You only see black and white and distort what is really there. You and others have made mention of others in the community who have done good work for our community. More hand less work for others as my father use to say. There is room for a pat on the back for everyone. But your words my dear worry me. You sound young and I feel some have taken you in a wrong direction. If you are looking from the inside and wishes you could be doing the same thing....go for it! You are right Jack and Virginia are not the only ones in the community, but are brave enough to take on sujects and problems and serious issues others sweep under the rug and go on pretending nothing is wrong. Come on girl, and try to see others in a different light life is to short to be net-picking and putting honest people down because your unhappy. Take care dear and SMILE!!!
you don't know the person so
you don't know the person so don't judge her and trying to read your grammer makes me think your younger then she is
Holy Condescension Batman
"Campbell" your message is really condescending to Mandy whoever she is. Its says a lot more about you than her.
I am not condescending. Why
I am not condescending. Why is it when someone other then a small group of you who thrive on slamming individuals down....and now me, only see your side of any story and everybody else is wrong. The truth has been told to you by me, Jack and Virginia yet you Scott and Mandyand anyone else refusses to believe. One point I need to make. There was a women from the Earlscourt Park area. I saw her taking pictures and approached her I asked if she was media and she said no. She explained that she wished they had the same organized protest in her area as we did here. That everyone was to afriad to say or do anything. She congratulated us and told us to keep up the presure and don't back down. Another man from Dundas area said pretty much the same thing. I hear quite often that all of you feel that because of all the media attention on Campbell Park somehow it gave the rest of the city that the area a bad reputation and was made to look like a slum. The City of Toronto making the park a dumping site for garbage made it a slum no one else. My God that is so far left field it isn't funny. Nothing was ever that I saw made to look as though they or anyone else was slamming the community down. I think in all honesty you dislike Jack and Virginia and will go and make up stories that make them look bad. I watched on City TV one night the candlelight vigial that was held in the park. My husband and I were at the park for the vigial and when I saw the way the reporter presented the vigial in good taste, it was done on TV moved me to tears. Nothing was ever said about the people who live here or that it is a slum. It expressed from many people that night how we felt about the City using our parks as a dumping ground for garbage. And sports groups and children were the ones who lost out not being able to use the park. Why are you doing this? As I said to Mandy, all you see is black and white and not colour. Open your eyes my dear and you may be supprised to see what is really out there and that not all is as negative as you make it out to be.
Dump Site
Its unfortunate that they used Campbell Park for a dumpsite. Heck I been using that park since I was a kid. It was Home field when I played for Kent and we practiced a few times there when I went to Bloor Collegiate. I've been here since grade 4, crica 85-86.
In my years I've never heard of these "Champions" of the neighborhood. Hey, I dont mean to discredit all your work over the years - I was a kid - why the hell would I care about politrixs and the hood back then. I was more interested in when the next wall ball game was going down.
Ask me now and its a different story......
Anyhow, I wanted comment on the dumpsite. As my mom who lives on St Clarens didn't want me to take her garbage to the Campbell site. Why you ask? She saw the fiasco and chaos on the news and as a senior she was very hesitant to have me (and her) go down together and get into a situation with picketers or protesters. To calm her nerves I told her lets go down to Lakeshore instead (another poor site decision by Silly Hall). Is this bullying I dont think directly, but people as you can see in my moms case didn't want to have anything to do with Campbell. In our case the garbage was handled by me and we had a car. I feel sorry for the elderly which do not have the options my mom did during this strike.
Just a little perspective view point from the elderly.
thanks.
Ranajit
PS - Hope I'm not one of the 7 living in a bubble, cause thats a bunch of BS.
All 21 dump sites had some form of protest
Scott D, you started all this shit in the blog, Critizing the protesters. I spoke to many of the other protesters in the different dump sites. They were Doctors, social workers, retired people, seniors and many other kind of professionals and people. Are you going to tell them they were wrong and should be doing others things, that suites you or needs to be approved by you, if it's not something you like it's bad. People have the right to speak and they did.
This is free speech Too,
Well Mr. or Ms. "Anonymous"
The protesters, the few of them that there were, have no right to attack and shout and in intimidate other local residents, who were just following what the City had asked them to do. That's not protesting.
As another local commentator said on their blog, the protest was a circus. In my peoples opinions it was a circus filled with outlandish claims and needless scare mongering (like Jack's fear of vegetables) that in the end probably will hurt the Parks and Rec budget. As I work in the media I know that locals were emailing and calling TV stations and newspapers asking them to stop covering the Campbell Park "protests" as they were making the area look bad and the few protesters did not have wide community support. So once again Fava and the "crew of the few" get Junction Triangle in the news again for something bad.
This blog is a form of protest too and I appreciate you endorsing the communities opportunity to express their opinions. And dropping garbage at a City endorsed short term location is a form of freedom of speech too, something you few decided you had the right to take from others. People have the right to speak, even when they don't agree with you.
21 Dump Sites
Yes Jack, perhaps all 21 dump sites had some form of protest, but most of that was striking civic workers on the picket line. Or perhaps, some of those other sites were locations where the park was actually closed, rather than just the unused outdoor hockey rink like at Campbell Park. Or perhaps at those other sites, the soccer and cricket games were actually cancelled rather than continue as they did at Campbell Park. Perhaps at those other sites, they didn't have four other parks within a five minute walk of their location. Or perhaps, at those other sites, the protestors were suggesting alternate measures and solutions to the resolve the temporary disruption rather than just screaming the sky is falling over and over and over. Or perhaps at those other sites, they were first time demonstrators rather than one or two individuals that always go on the attack and bring negative media coverage to their neighbourhood over and over and over. Or perhaps at those other sites, the protestors were not self-anointed and had a broad consensus of support in their neighbourhood rather than acting in an arbitrary manner just to get on TV.
No one, other than the police perhaps, told you to stop Jack. But if you pretend to speak for this community then everyone in the community has the right to question your actions and debate the value of those efforts in a civil manner.
It is very difficult to have this kind of conversation in a public forum. People get turned off very quickly by the negative carping, but as you can see from many of the comments, there are a lot of people in this community who want to focus on the positive things (like your pre-school breakfast program for example). How much closer to launching that initiative would you be if you hadn't spent all that time fighting something that was inevitable, short-term and self-resolving?
no subject
Not a beat was missed regarding the breakfeast program. We continued the meetings during the strike. I only see a small percentage of people who will always disagree. 7 from 10,000 residence is not everyone. You and your cronies are the only ones who keep saying we are bringing the community down. I don't think so. At this point you have your shades on and only see one picture....Your picture. Remember, Jack and I were not the only ones at the park there were many, many more. The rink for your information, is used to play ball hockey and basketball. Soccer was played until the end of the week and then they had to leave. The soccer games played at Christie Pits came to Campbell that same week the garbage came to Campbell. If you were in the know as you say your are then you would have know that. The negavitive didn't come from Jack or I, it came from the residence getting mad that garbage was being dumped in their park so close to houses and the play ground. I suspect that you do not live near Campbell Park that's why your comments are totaly out there.
Our neighbours encouraged us to be vocal if you watched the news footage we were not the only ones there. So everyone's idea that Jack and I are a one man show. You need to clean your glasses.
That's it for me. Think what you want I frankly don't give a dam.
Breakfast program
Jack has mentioned the breakfast program on the Fuzzy Boundaries site. A few people have asked about how to get involved etc. Are you looking for any donations or volunteers?
Breakfast Program
Hey Vic, At this point we don't need volunteers, as far as donation we will be needing that. We have postponed our opening til January 2010. We had a tentative opening date, a week before Thanksgivings, but had to change that. With the recession going on and doing business in the summer has been hard and you don't want to push or expect to much from your volunteers. A group of us have been meeting since april, which consist of some residents, police, rep. from different places of worship, community group(DPNC) and representation from of our 3 elected officals office. Which brings me to the last part. This has been extremly hard as we have had no help or idea's coming from Tony's office. Another projected spearheaded by residents. The lead should of been taken by the provincal government of davenport, it's funny, it becomes a platform issues during election, but that's about it. Anyhow we have a good group of people and will prevail. Vic will be sending out a letter to all the residents and business in the catchemnt area telling them about the breakfast program and how they can help, with donations and volunteering. We are stilling working out the details, but we have been told because we are dealing with children and this is pretty much a policy right across the board, that we would require from our volunteers a police check. I will keep you posted. Jack
modus operandi
it's not about the protest as much as it's about the methods used to voice your opinions. the ends should not justify the means. hey, wasn't there a project for a community centre in our area that got thwarted awhile back...
Improvements
Im not sure what all this bickering will accomplish, but does it really matter how long any of us have lived here.
I dont really care personally as long as we as a community see improvements.
Ranajit
The Community Standing Up for Itself
Hi Ranjit
This is not bickering, this is about:
1. Asking for all residents to be involved and respected equally with no one or two people speaking as if they speak for the entire community.
2. Stopping the needless bashing of our community in the media by one or two people who only see bad.
3. Acknowledging and celebrating all the great projects that are underway by residents of all stripes.
Ranjit this "bickering", and I know you mean that in a harmless way, is the community stepping up and being heard. These postings here are just a sampling of what is being spoken and emailed between neighbors every day as a new vibe takes hold; a new vibe lead by long time and new residents.
The last time
I said that I wouldn't stoop down to your level anymore but I will for the last time. No one ever made this community look bad in the media. The strike hit our park and the residence were mad. If you want to be the spokes person for the community, be my guest. Jack and I have never seen the bad in the community, I know everyone who reads this will agree that we live in a good community and the people who live here are a good group of individuals who want to make this a great place to live.
We have lived here all our lives and our children have grown up here as well. What pisses you off is that you think of the protest first. Jack and I are involved in many projects that will benifit the community of which anyone in the community can come a be apart of great and wanderful things in our community. We are not 1 or 2 induviduals who speak for everyone. We are constanty asked by police, pupbic officials, other individual from other areas in the city and our own residence to help them because we have a reputation for getting things done. Adam J, police chief, and the Mayor, U of T prof. are just a few who think our work and reputation has merrit. If you call this websit an area were individuals can voice their oppions thats fine but you have been very negitive yourself at us and others and we just respond you your childish behaviour.
We are still waiting Virginia
We are still waiting for your answer about when a person becomes a "real resident".
You could not have stated the communities issues with you and Jack better. You said it here in your own words and we still await a simple answer to your self righteous claim of superiority of other residents.
You were a bully to other residents when the cameras were rolling but now you don't even have the courage to type an answer to a simple question arising from your own statements found on this page.
So all the people you dismiss because they are new residents, all the people you dismiss because they have not lived here as long as you, all the people you dismiss because they are not in your orbit of self worship, all the people you dismiss because they want to do new and positive things, all the people you dismiss because you simply dont know they exist....all these people want you to answer the question that you yourself posed as the apparently self-appointed boss of the area
WHEN IN YOUR OPINION DOES SOMEBODY BECOME A "REAL RESIDENT" OF OUR AREA WITH THE SAME RIGHTS AS YOU?
We are waiting for an answer.
As for all the stuff you have done and how sought after you are, anybody who is remotely active in the community already knows the answer to that. BTW Adam's last name begins with a G.
woun't play your game
I refuse to dignify your stupid remarks with a answer. I know all to well how the NDP group work at trying to disclam the ones who work and they wish they could. If I or Jack affend you then I'm not sorry. We weren't intiminating anyone. You should have been listening more carefullyto what we we saying. From the response we got from the neighbours they thanked us. If the community wanted the media to stop filming Campbell Park well all I can say is you got your information all wrong as usual. I think you are more a bully then I will ever be just by the way you try to provoke someone into your twisted web. SORRY! I have better things to do. Have a good summer everyone and see you in the movies.
wanting what is best for our
wanting what is best for our community has nothing to do with what party you vote for , it says alot when someone admits she doesn't care if she offends another person,
Divisiveness Straight From The Source
So now you want to attack the NDP. What will you do when run out of "outsiders" to attack when people don't agree with you?
For the record you never answered the question that you raised and in the end your comments speak for themselves and you have exposed yourself and your divisive views here for all to see. I don't think I could possibly add any more than you have done yourself.
Now let the residents, ALL residents make up their minds.
the last word
Yes the NDP. I have worked along side of them and they are flakey. They are negative and enjoy putting people down. I alway atribute it to low self- assteam. You and the 7 others who I have notice visit the site are shallow as you are in your vies of others that give to the community. You are the one who lives in a glass bubble and only wishes you could attchieve what Jack and I and other before us have done. The way I see it is if their views are not on your wave pattern you condem them. Accutually, you are making yourself look follish not me. Again Scott, have a good summer. You know I love you.
Community Spirit
Hi everyone,
For the last couple of years, I've been on the organizing committee for the Perth Park Festival.
This years festival was great and I would like to point out that one of the reasons it was a success was the fact that complete strangers (to me) that reside in this community came out to help assemble/dismantle/volunteer their time to make it a success. Thank you!
I've read all these posts and am going to say that "everyone is entitled to their opinions" I voice mine freely as well but would like to take this in a different direction.
IN my observations, when there is chaos, the community pulls very well together as whole and that is not due to 1 or 2 people. It is a group effort.
There is a number of people out there that may not be actively involved in committees but no less, donate their time freely to make their own backyard a good place to live in whether they have resided here 1 or 80 years.
We all pick our causes and mine is fun which promotes community spirit and partnership.
I would like to see more positive fun events in this community where we all can come out, socialize, celebrate, meet your neighbor and will continue working towards that.
Yea! Rah, Rah, Rah
Yea Carla!