Re - Naming the Junction Triangle ?

I came to this site today to see what the word is on the renaming of the area...but i dont seem to see any info posted regarding the issue..?

I thought there was gonna be some sort of post started where people could post their suggestions ? its been couple of weeks now, and we have heard not a word down on flyers , nothing ?

anyway to be clear on my stance on this,,,,first I dont care what you all want to call it as long as the entire community is informed and is given the chance to entire community that does not mean a small hand full of people with ties to realestate agents, ,

it means that all the people who have lived in this community for decades young and old , English speaking and non English speaking are given the opportunity to vote on the matter,,,,and must be painstakingly informed and included in any renaming processes,,,,

the ethnic and low income people in this neighborhood have for decades had their voices ignored by government and law not fully making every effort to include all the peoples opinions and their say on the matter really touches on a sensitive note with the rest of us and brings to the forefront tremendous suspicion and paranoia about the motives behind the changing of our community's name....having speakers their who dont know diddley about the community doesnt help the cause much either...for example having a so called former city planner who claims they were in charge of this area years ago yet didnt have a clue as to where the physical rail boundries of our community were when she was asked was pathetic ,,,did she at least not see the two bloor rail overpasses when she drove into the meeting that day...for goodness sake, our community is enclosed on all sides in by the Nations major rail lines..and a former city planer for the area didnt even know where they were....unbelievable

Another point of exception was the threatening of the community ,,threatening us and saying " if you dont rename your community real estate people will do it for you" is not exactly what i would call a very productive way to engage a community...that could have been better handled too,...

me and the actual representative from the junction area who came to teh meeting had to both laugh when we heard the real estate salesman say, that the junction triangle area was always called the junction...I agree with what the representative from the actual real junction area said, when he pointed out that you can call yourself junction if you want to , but people across toronto will just laugh at you cause they all know that when someone says junction they are talking about keele and dundas area ....I wont be surprised if the real estate agents in the area dont try calling us the beaches wed really be the laughing stock of the city....or hec why not call us the bridle path,,,lol..

So Folks as long as the naming process makes a painstaking effort to engage all members of the community , and give all of them their "RIGHT" to decide on the outcome be it a new name , an old name, or no name then as long as every possible effort is made to engage all people new to the area and those who have lived here almost forever then i see no problem with the renaming no matter what the outcome is....

how i feel personally about a new name is of little significance its how all the people in the community collectively feel that is significant.....their say must not be ignored on such a important issue regarding the place which many in the community have called home all their lives...and in many cases all their parents lives too..

cheers...and post and let us know whats happening with the name thing ?

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Kids Play the Name Game

A nice story about the participation of the Dovercourt Boys and Girls Club Summer Camp in the Fuzzy Boundaries naming project appears in today's (July 17) Villager newspaper. You can checkout Lisa Rainford's article at

Junctioneer News Blog Features Fuzzy Boundaries Event

The Junctioneer news blog is featuring the latest Fuzzy Boundaries outreach initiative. On Tuesday, July 14th, the Dovercourt Boys and Girls Club Summer Camp (Perth Outreach location) is including the naming project in their program. Campers will be discussing the project, making name suggestions and voting on their favourite idea. You can checkout the Junctioneer post at

Fuzzy Boundaries Web Site, discussion continued

Hi All,

I posted a comment on in hopes that the communication discussion can continue over there. You don't need to log in or create an account -- just click on the discussion topic header and the interface functions the same as this forum.

I was asking everyone's thoughts about coordinating efforts with mailings and canvasing ideas, but there's more detail at ...

At a list of all of the previous name suggestions from the SJTRA web site has now been posted. You can check out those names, makes comments about them or make a suggestion of your own. Help us Name the Hood!

Asking the kids at Perth and St Luigi what name might want ???

A suggestion. Has anyone approached the principals at the two schools in the catchment area. Maybe get the children involved and to see what the children might want to call there neighourhood. They are the future of this community after all.
If I can make a comment about the flyer/card that went door to door informing residents about the meeting, I didn't think you needed to get that fancy, didn't help with the over all cost. This way you wouldn't need to have the realators pay for it Also having that havy gloss was hard on the eyes, making difficult to see the the card.

a good idea

This idea has lots of potential. Nothing creates good future citizens than by including them when they are children.

When this is all done maybe we can get the kids to spell it out on the ground for a photo.

Getting kids involved

Hi Jack,

Yes, this was brought up at the community meeting (I don't remember who), and everyone really liked the suggestion. When the naming process formally begins in September, we should try to get something out to the teachers and kids, which will also be passed up to the parents.

There was also a group of highschool kids in attendance, and they had some really great ideas and perspective on the whole naming process.

I hope the video of the meeting can get posted online sometime, so we can get a good refresher on all the great ideas that were discussed. Overall, it was a very positive meeting with a wide spectrum of our community represented.

Thanks for the suggestions, Jack. If you have any more ideas, the Fuzzy Boundaries group would love to hear them.

Communicating ideas

Yes, I can help canvas in the neighborhood for any future announcements. I live on south Perth.


More Communicating Ideas

Kristen, yes I would post a notice on my condo's is such a small thing to do. I posted the MetroLinx Open House at Lithuanian House and I actually know of 3 people from my building who went today. As soon as I see some neighbourhood names on the FuzzyBoundries website, I will post that link too. Perhaps people in my building would prefer to vote that way than attend a meeting.
I was actually excited to learn that my new area might have a name. I remember being disappointed when reading street signs with all these cutsy names but none in my area (Bloor near Ruttan - north of Merchant Lane). I kept saying we were in the forgotten area....maybe that will come to an end soon?

more communicating ideas

Ranajit, it's great to hear that you will help get the word out. Also, Janet, your idea about sending a naming message through your building's list serve is an excellent one -- it didn't work out last time, but maybe you would do it next time? I'm not sure who knows who on this blog, but anyone who can help out in this way (or others) should get in touch through the website so we can find each other easily.

Communicating Ideas again...

I see Ranajit did volunteer to canvas. Sorry for missing that the first time around. It's hard to read and write when one or both of my kids interrupts my train of thought every five minutes or less.

communicating ideas

Great points, Warren. I hadn't thought about it quite that way before, but of course the name Junction Triangle did not grow out of a rigorous, democratic name-finding process. If others are concerned that the message isn't getting out to the full community, help in achieving this is most welcome!

communicating ideas

The door cards produced in full (4) colour and with a glossy finish was not necessary. Are we trying to compete with other advertising? or sending a simple message. Imagine how many people must have thrown the card out, since it looks so similar to your average junk mail (ie Gym membership, Real Estate advertising etc).

I think a simple notice would have been sufficient (see Clean Train Coalition brochures in multi-language). That is a great example how its done. Web page on Facebook, door to door canvassing, material available in multi-language - very inclusive regardless if your a hipster or old folk.

As for requiring help to spread the word. Im available. I know Brett is as well, he already showed up at my door with a brochure for the campaign mentioned above. It can be split up, we all live in different sections of this neighborhood, it takes just few individuals. With more people involved, it gives us the ability to be more personal with the message ie ring door bell, talk to the residence personally and get feedback - invite them to the event personally vs plopping a card in the mailbox which will get lost in the storm of marketing that goes in there.

This whole renaming initiative snowballed so fast in a short amount of time. It would have been more useful if we had input on how to get the message across. Im positive I would have not suggested the glossy card, as nice as it is - the money could have been used more wisely.

Just an observation yo,

Communicating Ideas

Thanks for the observation and offer to help Ranajit. It is much appreciated. I have to disagree with you however, I don't think the direct mail piece was extravagant. We needed to capture people's atttention with something unique and reach all 3300 households in the neighbourhood. A flyer delivered by individuals just cannot reach everyone and that was the objective so that we could avoid accusations of "I didn't know" or "I didn't receive, etc." The effectiveness of the piece was demonstrated by the fact we had a full room for the May 13th event. It doesn't seem to matter what anyone does, there will always be someone who thinks otherwise, but the design Irmina created was fabulous and we received lots of compliments about it.

More Communicating Ideas...

My two cents worth...

It's so very true that it doesn't matter what the good intentions are behind any grassroots project and how much one tries to get the word out, one cannot please everybody. It's impossible. Given the impossible, it shouldn't stop us from trying.

AGREE: that the mailing did reach 3300 addresses. AGREE: that canvasing can also add as further support to mailings. Moreover, when canvasing, one can also ask if the person is interested in including their name to a digital mailing list for future news updates.

Yet, canvasing requires more volunteers than the current number within the steering committee. It would be helpful if one person can coordinate the door to door canvasing of the project – from recuiting volunteers to following up with them.

We all have our “business” strengths that are useful in helping grassroots efforts. All these community projects are really grassroots and require teamwork to make things happen. I think opening up the dialogue is a great start.

Hey Ranajit, are YOU interested in canvasing? ;-)


In the meeting somebody took it upon themselves to ridicule the speaker for her failure to recognize the supreme importance of the triangular shape of the neighbourhood. I was very surprised to see an adult being that rude.
The term 'painstaking' has been repeated a couple of times. It suggests to me that the process will be labeled illegitimate unless it takes on a prohibitive communication challenge. I reject this. And I doubt that names previously used would stand up to this type of standard. Official communication should use relatively simple English so that obtuse terminology does not exclude people. :-) And reasonable effort should be made to contact all residents.
Significant effort was made to meet these challenges. I don't think it is appropriate to obstruct the process on the grounds of communications.
Furthermore I think voices from outside our community should be welcomed. So if we get other experts to speak let's be polite.

Why it's fuzzy

I just want to comment on why I think the boundaries of this neighbourhood have a bit of fuzz around the edges.

Yes, the railway tracks do make a very hard and convenient border for the neighbourhood. I pretty much use these to define what think of as the 'hood that I live in.

However, there are a couple of parts along the edges where the railway tracks really are not major barriers:

1) Wallace Ave.: The railway tracks between Campbell and Ward are not much of a barrier. Only a few trains per day, and pedestrians, cyclists, and motorists flow across here easily. Strolling along Wallace Ave., I would say that Symington is actually more of a real barrier than the tracks are. Wallace Ave. between the tracks and Lansdowne really does feel like it's part of our neighbourhood. Though this could change significantly, depending on what happens with the Davenport Diamond grade separation. If we ever get pedestrian crossings at Paton Rd. and Antler/Lappin, this would potentially add more fuzziness to the east side.

2) Osler Ave: The area around Olser and Cariboo is just a quick hop over the tracks to Pelham Ave., and the community housing there. Residents in that area may actually have more of a connection to Pelham and Carleton Village than they do the Junction Triangle in some ways. A student at the Fuzzy Boundaries meeting even said that among highschool kids, many of them call the general area "Pelham" (or was it "Pelham Park"?) because they associate with that housing project. Certainly an interesting perspective.

The overall north-south size of the "Junction Triangle" area adds a bit of another geographical twist to it: Do residents north of Dupont feel more associated with their neighbours to the north around Pelham, Davenport, etc., or do they feel more connected to our neighbours within the triangle down at Sterling Rd.? And vice-versa: Do Sterling residents feel more connected to Bloor-Lansdowne and Bloor-Dundas than they do to Dupont and Osler?

Ruttan St. / Merchant Lane are also unique. Their only connection to the neighbourhood is Bloor St., and in many ways they are very much isolated from the rest of the community. I have heard people from that area, and the BeBloor condo, suggest that they are part of the Bloor-Lansdowne neighbourhood rather than the Junction Triangle Fuzzy Hood.

It's certainly an interesting area to think about. I would still consider the tracks to be the border of our 'hood, but in all honesty, most neighbourhoods have some fuzz around the edges.

In addition to physical

In addition to physical considerations, people on the west side of Lansdowne may not feel (for whatever reason) included in Brockton. Sometimes it is not important to tightly manage other people, they can make decisions for themselves about where they feel at home. If their reasoning does not match mine I won't be bothered by that unless I have a much better reason then "they come from the wrong side of the tracks".


Hi neighbours,
I'm a member of Fuzzy Boundaries, and also a fan of the name Junction Triangle (though I'm interested to see what other names people come up with and don't know how I'll vote til the time comes). I hope that finding (or regenerating) a name for this neighbourhood will have a trickle-down effect and help us get more organized around a number of community issues -- clean train concerns, park festivals, renovated libraries, community centres, community gardens, and so on. It seems to me that there are a number of groups popping up and doing different wonderful things, but we would benefit from more integration or interaction, and if we all knew what to call ourselves, that could only help the process. I am a somewhat-newcomer, having been here nearly five years. But one of the things I love best about my neighbourhood is its diversity -- not just that there are people here from so many different backgrounds, but also that there are people around me who are newcomers, and others who have been here for decades. My neighbour next door is now in her 80s, but arrived from Italy in her mid-twenties, and all that time she has been growing tomatoes in a patch in her backyard. This is our community to share. It shifts and changes over time, as people come and go. This is what keeps it vibrant. I hope more people who've been here for a long time will step forward and become part of this process. It's easy (but not terribly gratifying) to criticize from the sidelines. It's harder (and a lot more gratifying) to step in.

Thanks for coming out


Its often that way. People always complain that they did not know even when they get mail and there is press etc etc. There are still people who do not know about the Clean train Coalition for example. Its just the way it is and people who are promoting things just have to develop a thick skin over the abuse. I have personally delivered things only to have the same people yell at me saying they were not informed. People are distracted.

I have learned from working in media that 4 replies or contacts from every 100 sent out is considered a good result. And of course the old adage that is is easier to fill a room with people who are against something than with people who are for something.

Keep attending all the great things going on in the area and pass it on.....

A small clarification

I have never been to a Fuzzy Boundry meeting in my life before the last one and i am not, as I have stated, a member of that group. I also prefer the name JT.

I would like to see galleries pubs and shops because I want to see culture, I want to drink pints, and I want to shop. That is called a living breathing community. Why shouldn't everybody here enjoy what others enjoy? I like festivals because I want to hear and see my neighbors sing, learn , laugh, and dance. I will spare them the same from me.

It was I who organized the handouts from CTC in our area and made sure there was a Portuguese version; all of which I paid for myself. As an 8 year resident and almost 30 year visiter of the hood I am very aware of the makeup of the community; I have canvassed for a political parties in elections here and been involved in many civic activities. I know or recognize most people in the area and I think my service to this community and to Parkdale (for which I won two awards) speaks for itself. I am happy to be disagreed with but nothing anybody says changes the facts above. I am not an outsider or an insider, I am a neighbor.

Naming our Neighbourhood

I live in a 238 unit condominium. We all received the postcards, but of the 238 units, only 2 people attended the meeting, one of whom was me.
I don't think the majority of people read the card. They just assumed it was junk mail & threw it out. Others were too busy or had other plans.
In hindsight, I should have posted a notice on our building's listserv. Maybe that would have helped with more new residents attending.

hi immina

i dont know what your talking about re malouse niel ross ???? just point out that everyone in the region knows the the name jucntion is associated with keele and dundas, it has never been as the realestate agent claims associated with us as long as i have lived here and my parents have lived here,,,,sorry but when the realator said that it he was wrong,,,Maybe he looked it up in some history book and got that info but for as long as we can remember junction is dundas and the people in the further reaching community,,,,me and the guy from junction just pointed that out thats alll,,,,i dont see any mallace in correcting that, you guys say you want input and we told what people have always condidered to be junction ,,,, it would be confussing to many if we started calling us that.....

that womman that got up and thew a fit cause she lived her for two years and didnt know anyone , sereiously dont know what to say to that,,,we smiled at each other at the end of the night,,,hope she makes freinds soon,,i have no bad feeling to her, she actually showed some spunk , that good..i think,, as you said your self you and all the new nieghbors were welcomed into the community...if you live here, work here your your not oiutsiders,,,hec even outsiders are wellcome here for that matter BUT can you not see the issue with people comming into this community and callling you , scott, me and others pridless, or having no sense of community irmmina,,just because we dont have a street festival...,thats very insulting ,,,and you know more than any after only 5 years here that their is a great sense of both pride and community here.... hey im not against festivals i love music festivals especially,,,but there was no festival here and you and all the new people were welcomed with open arms onto the street so to speak,,, so yes festivals are good but lets not overstate their importance in building a strong community....your saying something about monied class i didnt say anythnig reagarding that, please dont try and twist it...,,,,as you know know some of us are well to do some are not we all still get along please dont make things up that were not intended ....

as far as fuzzy boundries yes it can be a funny name, but it can also sound like your pointing out that we dont know anything about ourselfs...which is how it all sorta comes off,,,,now that you point out its meant in geste that helps but still the boundries are very physical ones , that suround our community....

immina sadi quote.."It is misunderstandings -- an Us vs. Them attitude and grumbling of who should and should not be considered a long time resident that smacks of a very harmful lack of community spirit."

to answer your quote NO..its not please get over the long time resident hangups the only thing new people should be concerned with when somone says theyved been living here for a long time is that that person has information to share with you that you may find useful,,,when that pereson has passed on then you may find that shared info usful down the raod when your turn as residents comes along to deal with shady politicans and developers or unattentive police....nowbody in this comunity that I know of is really counting the days you lived here as a measure of you as a person its your actions and how hou you treat people in the community that matter....not your time here ,or your money, or anything else.. ,,,,

you all had a meeting , where you showed interest in the local history , those of us who knew some of the said history came out and put our two cents worth in , and got treated as though we were haters of new people or change, which was furthest from the truth,,,

your the ones that put up all the old pictures and seemed to want to know the history, those of us that new it responded , we will tell you what we know if you dont want to hear it fine...,,,no problem....end of disccusion....

evlolution is good im not against that,

Hi there,

Im all for the idea of having an identity, but only if its inclusive. This back and forth bickering isn't helping the real issues at hand: OUR COMMUNITY in the forefront of everyones minds.

I don't want to see people take sides. I agree with whats been said by Brett (online + meetings), he may come across as aggressive/passionate, but he truly cares, as do most of you and myself about our Community. It seems lines are being drawn between who's new school vs old school (I'm home school ;) . It doesn't matter we all live here and are part of the community - like it or not.

Also, I am noticing that there seems to be multi groups and associations in this "Junction Triangle" - or call it what ever you want, before the 'tm' branding occurs. For example, we have DigIn, SJTRA, South Perth And Sterling Rd Assoc. and some Garden groups. I notice each group usually is passionate about their immediate area (which is cool and understandable) - ie traffic issues South of Perth vs North of Perth - I bet you two groups have put in separate complains to the appropriate authorities. We need to work as a team, coordinate get all of the issues out there - whether its a problem up by Dupont, Campbell or by the Nestle Factory - its all part of the "Hood".

I'm glad to see people getting hot under the collar (not really), but it tells me something - that people really do care and as they should.

I would love to see us banding together more instead of the buffet of issues being doled out by various groups or peeps. I do like the mesh of old and new: Brett = Door to Door canvassing of issues, being vocal and now we have Vic who has done an incredible job running this site (along with others who are helping him). We have the resources within and the tools.

As for the naming of the Community, I made my comment(s) clear in the meeting. It should be inclusive and involve people of all demographics.

Anyhow, good chatting and reading all the comments, but I should get back to work.

L8er y'all,

Interesting comments

The door to door vs cyber = new resident vs old resident theory is just that but I do like the tone and spirit of your comments Ranajit. Lots of older residents are online, I email them and lots of residents of the last few years were out door to door for CTC. Keep posting.

evlolution is good im not against that,

Yes Scott there is only one way ,

But its not my way or your way, its the democratic way, as i said time and again scott what you or i think as individuals doesnt matter in the end its what the majority of the residents think, not some realestate agent and not just a small group of people lucky enough to have access to computers and the may "surprise" you scott that alot of people in our community dont use computers, and alot of them dont speak or read english all that well either,,,,,it would be very considerate not to overlook thier oppinions on the matter,,,,

yes perhaps some issues in a community can be addressed by a smaller portion of that communiy, though that too can be argued,,,but re naming a community where many poeple have lived for years, is a big event to a community so maybe your group are not fully aware of that...I hope you do try to make every effort to consult the majority of the residents,,,yes i know you have your work cut out for you but surely you must have realized this before undertaking such a major effort..Some good suggestions by people were made at the meeting such as looking at how the beaches or beach conducted their naming process, and could that be used as a model for ours , or some aspects of it used...

you paint me in a less than faltering light Scoot yet you dont even know me, or have never really talked to me before...

the group meeting, I asume your a part of that group, presented its self as interested in the local history of the area , but when as a long time member of the area i stood up and tried to let them know that yes we are a community and yes our boundries are not really fuzzy it was i who was shouted down by a young lady, ,,,so on one hand you put up hundred year old pictures from the toronto archiecves at the meeting , but when people who actually lived in the area for 40 years, or the rep from the keele junction area try to offer info or correct some of the information presented by your speakers our input is shouted out and dismissed by your group of supporters, ,,,???

point - your real estate agent said this area is known as "The Junction",... I as well as the Rep from "The Junction" tried to point out that everyone in the region from dufferen over to runymede knows that when you say Junction your talking about dundas and keele area,,,your both welcome to disagree but that is common knowledge to eveyone...sorry if i steped on toes trying to make you aware of that info...

Point - your planer said the boundries of our area were fuzzy, again i pointed out the physical rail way lines that surround us,,,,,,not exactly fuzzy, especially when the Metrolinx project gets finished ,,,,,again sorry if i stepped on toes while trying to point that out...

Point - your people keep harping on and on about how we have no sense of community, well the reason I brought up drug problems of the past is that its a fine example how over the years our community banded together to figtht and prevent that issue from taking over our community......i was merely pointing out that there is nothing fuzzy about our sense of community, and the fact that our community managed to stick togher and keep vigilant over the decades should have been viewed as a plus and a sign of strong caring community involvement.....sorry if i stepped on your toes by bringing up the past to try and shine a positive light on COMMUNITY solidarity.....

yes in the past I was loud on a couple of occasions, actually put my neck on the line at lansdowne where nobody had ever dared questioned the police's lack of action in thet area before, and did so very loudly to let the police know just how fed up we were with their lack of effort and empty promises during those years....
I didnt exactly toss myself across the tracks like the politician at the fern ave clean train coalition meeting suggested doing last week, but still i was doing exactly what she is suggesting make a big risky statement to open peoples eyes up to the matter,,,mind you I dont know whats worse getting run over by a train or having a couple big angry shady cops corner you in a dark ally some night...or feeling the brunt of one of your forum replys ....ouch...If i was loud at your meeting I appologise you had no microphones or pa system, and we had trouble hearing the people up front speaking aswell,,,,

you try and paint me as some sort of radical which is not generally my nature, Id much prefer open co-operative dialogue any day to shouting actually the one that suggested that the clean train coalition not use gas masks in their protests because that would make them look like a bunch of G8 summit anarchists(eli can verifiy that),,and yes i am involved in the clean train coalition, I contributed slightly in getting their first youtube video up the other day,,,,,Im also the one that has been suggesting since their inception that Digin and Jack have to start reaching out to other associations to simply talk and share info and support each other and work together (Donna and Thressa can vouch for that)
So im hardly one to fit the narrow radical picture you try and paint of me, you actually dont even know me, nor have you ever spoken to me ,,,, ,

and yes it does seem like in this last paragraph im doing alot of tooting of my own horn,,,lol....but when you try and paint me as some sort of unaproachable person then i have to counter and try and show you that no im not as bad as you want people to think,... no scott i dont put down positive actions in the community, but i am concerned about how your group is gonna include the majority of the people in making the decission, ...that should not be viewed as negative but as a legitimate question scott...and that should concern you too if you really do care about your nieghbours,,,or were you the one that made the sarcastic remark to Ranajit about a drop off box on your porch..??? ...

I have visited your fuzzy website , do i have to log in to read the name suggestions, because i had seen no name suggestions posted there as of yet,,,,I am not good with computers so please tell me if i am mistaken, or is the forums of your site not the place where you folks were expedting to recieve suggestiongs???? ........

scott , endlless need to play the victum ,,,thats nice writing scott , its becoming a simplistic over used cliche response on tv though, but i cant blame you for trying ....failing to notice good things in the community that arnt about crime and drugs,,,,lol dear scott at our last community meetings crime and drugs werent even mentioned at all,,,in fact it was what you might call "a cool thing" because our residents all had a chance to have a very pleasent discussion with the owners of tower automotive lands, they got to meet the rep first hand and all were given contact cards to call him with their concerns,,,we even entered into discusion with a tenant from the 227 lofts and giambronis reps to bring the community up to speed on that situation,,,thressa and Ann from the digging group were invited so that they could relay info back to their organizaiton about the progress of the land developement...and yes i have already been talking about inviting them and jack and maybe vic to our next residents meeting.....oh sorry to disapoint you but i did no shouting or talking about crime at that last meeting at all ....

listen scott , The point regarding "yuppie jazz festival"" was clearly to hit home the fact that community does not nessasarily need a festival before it can call itself a community,,,and thats what im trying to state we do have a sense of community, and we do have pride in ourselves arleady,,,yes a festival is a bounus, and i guess im a yuppie too because i cycle out to the jazz festival every year , and when the festivals over i come back home to my community, which i, like my niegbours am very proud of ...

by outsiders i refer to , land developers, real estate salespersons, and possibly ex city planners who dont know where our boundries are etc...and people who come to our area but dont live here or really know us at all for that matter, yet say things like this area has no sense of community or pride.. thats insulting to us...sorry if my stance on that offends you too..but scott if you like people telling you and your nieghbors that they have no pride then god bless for turning the other cheek so easily....I refuse to let people insult our community like that...!

scott in your last paragraph you go on about the area getting better , all i have been saying all along is that it has always been a great place to live , there is an old community here, there are some great new faces here, and there already is pride here scott,, ,,,,I said, as do most poeple here say, that people who move here never leave because its a great place with great people ,,,how do you turn that into a negative scott ..

scott maybe its a visual thing with you,... you have to see "things" like shops and galleries go up before the community is deemed as getting better,,,and thats cool, but what im saying is to look under the surface scott at the people that already exist in the nieghbourhood , they are the community, they have always been the reason why people move here and end up staying, Hey If your interest is your real estate value then fancy shops will obviously be a measure of a place getting better economically, and there is nothing wrong with that,,,but if your interested in communty and pride then its the poeple scott that you should be looking at and trying to talk to....judge a person not by the shoes he wears but by the company he keeps, we got some great people in our community scott some rich some poor some english speaking some not, but their all great people scott if you can get past the superficial and get to know them..

ah what the hec last drug story i promise know more after,,,,ok here it goes, i know of a community that has some fellas in it that do alot of drugs and steal all the time to support their habbit , yet the funny thing is that those fellas have the prettiest looking house in their I used to know a poor single woman once who was trying real hard to raise her kids on her own, and people always told me god her house is ugly,,,,but one day when a crook was breaking into everyones cars it was that poor woman in the ugly house that immediately called the police to stop the crook from breaking into her nieghbors cars,,hec she didnt even own a car herself... .......

you cant judge the character of a commuinity on looks alone........

ok thats it no more ranting i promise...

cheers and sincere best of luck with your endevour to determine a name...

Attching copy of a flyer from local residents

Promote, don’t rename the

Dear Friends and Neighbours:

You may or may not be aware, but some residents living in what is presently called the Junction Triangle in ward 18, are divided as to what to call the HOOD. This particularly group of residents feel they live in a nameless community and are in an identity crisis. Confused as to what to tell their family and friends as to where they live. Pressured to rename the neighbourhood by realtors and developers, which are non-residents and its only interest is driven by money. But then their are others, who say that they know where they live and already have a name, a neighbourhood nested between three sets of rails, who are in favor of promoting instead of renaming?

If you are in support of the name Junction Triangle and wish to promote and have your voice heard. Please call or email Councillor Adam Giambrone at 416-392-7012 or email

A community meeting will be organized regarding this discussion and a noticed will be send out at a later date. Thank you


Local Residents

Brett, I know your heart is in the right place

I'm your neighbour on your street. When my family first moved here, you were one of the first people on the street to make us feel welcome. Over the five years since I've lived here, I always knew that YOU were the one who had his heart in the right place when it came to advocating for our neighbourhood.

However, reading your forum postings, I'm very disappointed and rather shocked at the abrasive tone to your messages. Neighbourhoods evolve over time, just like life – people are born, they live and die. Life is cyclical. Neighbourhoods are symbolic of life. People are born, they live, decide to put down roots on a little patch of land and some will stay and others will move on. Your family roots is one of a dying breed. You have stayed and lived, carrying on your family history on the same land for four generations – that's great! BUT your anger regarding your definition of “newcomers” and types of newcomers and equating it with such a loaded term as “outsiders” divides rather than unifies.

I would also like to point out that the group name “Fuzzy Boundaries” is meant to be humourous rather than insulting. You write:
“I agree with what the representative from the actual real junction area said, when he pointed out that you can call yourself junction if you want to , but people across toronto will just laugh at you cause they all know that when someone says junction they are talking about keele and dundas area...”

I don't recall that malice from (I believe his name is Neil Ross), the president of the Junction Historial Society. He was very funny. He came saying he was extending an olive branch to our area and that if we wanted to become part of the Junction (again), as it was historically, he was said, “Welcome back!” Moreover, because the Junction was already established with it's identity, he would help our area re-integrate back into their events and festivals.

When people decide to get together and create something such as a cohesive identity, and make it INCLUSIVE without using terms such as “newcomers”, “outsiders” or homeowner vs. renter, then that should be seen as a good thing. We're residents getting involved in the community we decided to live in.

You also wrote: “alright granted so we dont have a yuppy jazz festival every summer, big deal we dont have festivals, ... but what we have got is an old history of people who do CARE about the community they live in...”

AND what is wrong with a community festivals? Community events should NOT only belong to what you seem to think are the monied class. That's insulting to working class citizens. Are you suggesting that our area has NOTHING to celebrate? But only to mourn and bemoan the pain and loss (Holly Jones), crime (though I feel quite safe here) and pollution (that's changing too with industries moving out).

People meet more of their neighbours, outside of the street they live on, with community events/festivals. They are shared life events, just like birthdays and anniversaries. That's what families do, they celebrate milestones and specials events, they create shared memories therefore building stronger bonds.

It is misunderstandings -- an Us vs. Them attitude and grumbling of who should and should not be considered a long time resident that smacks of a very harmful lack of community spirit.

I like you and I will always think you have your heart is in the right place, but how about turning your thinking from such statements as: “you may not be intending to call us fuzzy in a derogatory manner, i dont know i cant read minds, but it kinda comes off as if we are a bunch of lost souls with no community or pride, which please note is the furthest from the truth...” to finding the goodness in the efforts of us fledgling residents that are right in front of you. Just remember, your family four generations ago were “newcomers” too.

But then I saw his second letter...

I don't really want to go on arguing either but Brett the more you write the more it becomes clear that you live in some alternate reality where you think that only YOU know what is happening in the community and only what YOU think should happen is the correct way. You sound like a one man army and in fact you are. More and more I see that you are not fighting for some kind of community democracy, no in fact you are scared of it.

Somehow you have failed to notice that there are a lot people in this area doing cool positive things but because they are not about crime and drugs which seem to be your pet interest, you have no interest and place no value in them. In fact you put them down and try to shout out anybody you disagree with. You are known as "that guy who yells at all the meetings". I would love to see you involved with something positive that really interests you and again challenge you to do so but seriously, people stopped listening to your yelling a long time ago.

Your views on "outsiders" and your endless need for the community to play the role of poor crime ridden cousin doesn't reflect the open mindedness and inclusiveness that I experience all over the community every day. People are excited about new opportunities in the area and banding together in larger projects such as the Clean Train Coalition, Big On Bloor, or Railpath expansion south and north. But I guess you would call those yuppie things and be against them too.

About 25 years ago I started my career at Wallace Studios and was very aware of all that was happening in the area as I bicycled around. It may surprise you but the reason I moved here was because I could see how much the area had improved since that time and that it was going to continue to get better. That is the reality for most of the people in the area that I meet and people can see the change as Lansdowne and Bloor gets galleries and new stores and a new owners risk their savings with new businesses on Campbell and Dupont. This doesn't happen because an area is bad, it happens because the area is getting better.

As the area improves Brett, and your never ending rants rage on, more and more it is you yourself that are becoming the "outsider" you call everybody else, and what a waste of passion that is.

I was thinking of making

I was thinking of making this my reply to dorkos letter....

I am not a member of the Fuzzy Boundaries Group and I would lean towards keeping the name Junction Triangle and think this process is a healthy one and a sign that the area is coming to life.

I have lived here 8 years and in most peoples books that makes me a resident, an established resident in fact. I resent any suggestion that there are two kinds of residents in our area or the idea that some residents have opinions that matter more based on how long they have lived here. I also resent the implication that there is a "small group" of people, outsiders if you will, who are somehow taking control of the area or forcing people to do things they don't want to do. This is the small minded language of those who fear change and fear others having ideas; its the language of those who realize that the hood is changing, as ALL hoods the world over do –again and again- and refuse to embrace the inevitable.

The Fuzzy idea has been one of the most publicized positive community initiatives that has happened in this area in the last 10 years. Cards door to door, major daily newspaper coverage, small newspaper coverage, a website, coverage in at least 3 local blogs that I was aware of, posters, support from the local councillor, and a featured spot on the number 1 radio show in the GTA; the kind of press that any organization or group could only dream of is to be commended rather than berated because some people don't read their mail or were busy and missed the info. Our area got in the news because of something GOOD. That is an achievement.

From Boo Radleys on Dupont, to Noona's on Bloor, and Yasi's on Campbell I heard people talking about the naming process and energizing the community. On every street in this community I personally talked with somebody including life long residents about this idea and obviously I met with differing opinions but people were talking and communicating with each other. I saw a group of people at the Library talking about it, I heard a group across the tracks talking about it, and saw locals who I have never seen involved in anything step up and poster. People lead busy lives and don't read their mail or the papers or talk to their neighbours as much as they should but if Fuzzy Boundaries is news to you, then honestly FB is not the issue here, maybe how connected you are to the hood may be the issue.

Brett I mention this because after 8 years of hearing the same rant from you I noticed that at the FB meeting you went on and on about how bad the area is and that the City does nothing for us. You said this at a meeting endorsed by the councillor, a few weeks from when the new 1.2 million dollar stage one Railpath opens, and the same week local council pushed through an emergency motion for storage funds for the Boys and Girls Club, during the second season of new tree planting along our streets, and new sidewalks under development to slow traffic. I could go on but there is a lot of good out there going on if you look for it. Join in. Are things perfect? No. Join in.

I would also say that I resent any language about this process being connected to real estate agents as if there is some secret plan underfoot. First off we all bought houses using them so we are ALL connected to them and they are local business people who have the same rights to donate money to community events as any other business. Boo Radleys, Stella, Yasi's are just a few of the diners in the area that I know have donated services or money to local groups-- this is something that should be encouraged and they should be rewarded with our business and the retail part of our community (which was almost dead) will come back with goods and services within walking distance and jobs especially for our young people making their first steps to earning a wage. Our area desperately needs local business and it needs local business that cares and wants to participate in the community. In healthy communities donations from business, including real estate agents, is a given. This is local business supporting the community, a trend that a community needs to improve. Why drive this away?

Brett you have a habit of making yourself and your opinion known at every meeting I have ever seen you at so I feel comfortable offering you advice as you have never had a problem offering yours to others. I think you posting here is a great opportunity for you to voice your concerns and ideas and I encourage you to post things that you think are important here too. That said after 8 years of hearing the same rant from you I have to ask you whether it has ever occurred to you that maybe you are the one who is out of touch. Maybe you have started to represent the hood of old as I never have heard you talk about the future, about goals, about possibilities about anything positive in fact; I have never seen you at any community meetings about positive things, I have only seen you yelling about what happened 25 years ago and about how bad the area is. Have you not noticed that most residents feel differently about the area and see a great future? I don’t see any millionaires moving here but I do see many new families and first time buyers—are they fools for believing in the community enough to make the largest financial purchase of their lives here? I challenge you to take your energy and passion and be a champion of what is and can be great in hood instead of a champion of what is or was wrong. Its really time for you to move from victimhood and towards action. Pick one small thing on your street, like planting flowers at the parking lot at Sterling and Perth and make it yours, own it, make it happen. I think you would be surprised at the support you would get.

The Fuzzy Boundaries Group is not a perfect process but has gone to great lengths to be inclusive and I think will continue to do so. One can either be scared of it and other positive community led initiatives and try to break the community apart by creating false groups of "us or them" or one can see these activities as signs of life that should be encouraged. If any resident finds a fault with process then this blog is one place to make those views known but here me clearly, attempts to denigrate or tar the motives of many residents who give their time to improve their community will no longer go unchallenged. The area is changing for the better with or without you.

I never got any flyer about

I never got any flyer about any meeting regarding changing our name. When my daughter was looking for a house in the city you be amazed at the different names communities have. We have the Junction and then the Junction triangle I don't see why all of a sudden a group of people to together to change a name that is known. And no not in a negitive way. My husband and I were talking about this a couple of weeks ago and he wounders if any of your who are on the fuzzy comminttee......I call it fuzzy head....will you change the name of the new committee that you are moving into because you don't like it?Leave things the way they are.

Fuzzy flyers

A very strong effort was made by the Fuzzy Boundaries organizers to make sure EVERYONE in the community was invited to the meeting.

  • Thousands of flyers were delivered by Canada Post to every household and business in the neighbourhood (South of Perth, they were hand-delivered)
  • Newspaper articles in The Villager, and The Globe and Mail, interviews on radio and television
  • It was listed as an event on this website
  • It was emailed out to the SJTRA announcement email list
  • Many different groups within the community were contacted (SJTRA, a couple of community gardening groups, DIGIN, South Perth and Sterling RA, and others...)
  • It was spread by word of mouth
  • etc...etc....

I think this is pretty reasonable. If some people threw out their flyers before reading them, or, did not receive them because they don't accept "junk mail", then it's not the fault of the organizers. You can see that the first meeting had a great turnout, if you check the website. should be noted that the Fuzzy Boundaries initiative is NOT necessarily about CHANGING the name. Many people at the meeting and on the FB committee actually like the Junction Triangle name. But at least group is open to everyone's opinions.

Everyone is welcome to post their opinions and preferences on the Fuzzy Boundaries website. Or come to the next meeting to make your voice heard. if you can't make it to the meeting, or can't use email/web, you can leave comments in the box at the Perth-Dupont library.

It's a pretty inclusive exercise.


Neighbourhood Naming Project

Don't let the facts stand in the way of a good rant Brett. As was indicated on the May 13th public meeting notice that you received along with all of the 3300 other households in the neighbourhood and on the handout you were given at the meeting, everyone interested in the naming project (making suggestions, commenting on other people's ideas, etc.) can do that at

This is not about re-naming the neighbourhood. This project is about getting residents discussing the area and determining a name for the neighbourhood. Perhaps a name from the past will emerge as the most popular or something new will be the end result, but the process is about creating a collective identity for the neighbourhood that will bind the area together as a whole and create a sense of ownership and pride.

The role of real estate agents in the process was clearly explained at the start of the May 13th public meeting. It cost nearly $800 to publicize the event and get word out to everyone in the community. Someone needs to pay for the printing and distribution costs of the meeting announcements, so why not ask real estate agents since they have a vested interest in the process? There is nothing hidden or secretive about their involvement. We found some agents that were willing to support a community initiative. Not all the realtors we approached were willing to support this community improvement project. The event sponsors are not trying to force a name on the neighbourhood, but instead are supporting a process led by community residents.

I am not sure why you want to slag the efforts of the volunteers from the neighbourhood working on this initiative or the speakers who gave of their time freely or make unfounded accusations about their efforts and motives - I will leave it to people to reach their own conclusions.

realtors triangle ?

I understand your financial dilemma, I use money out of my own pocket to print flyers, and petitions too... But you must have understood that having a real estate agency back it was not gonna go over to well, even if you entered into this with the most sincerest of intent to help out the community , having a real estate agency name on the card makes it look as though its more about developers pushing this issue than an issue or concren born of our own community ....,,, so it could be a sincere generous offering from the realtors office but because of all the outside developers coming into the community lately. it ends up looking more like their trying to force their agenda onto our community... can you not see, or understand that ? .....

You say its not about renaming the neighborhood, fine then its about PICKING a name,,,and if that name should be different than what most in the area are accustomed to calling it then I guess they might be inclined to say its a RE-NAMING of the area.. either way the fact still remains that at your meeting we were basically told point blank that if we did not (call it what you will) PICK/ DECIDE/ CHOOSE a name the real estate agents would do it for us...I was not the only one that heard that....

when one of the neighbors Ranajit raised concerns that maybe community members who dont have a computer might be excluded, one of your two backers of the meeting not the real estate guy the other one sitting near him replied sarcastically to sure Ranajit can better address that insensitive comment,,,my take on that was he "the person backing your group" really didnt seem to care to much about the input of the rest of the community just so long as his internet vote got heard...

As i have said and I will say it again what ever the community wants to name the place is up to them. In the end people who have lived here already for 20 or more years will continue to call it what ever they wish too no matter what anyone else says it should be called..,,,But Just so long as its the MAJORITY of residents new and old , are not excluded because of language or economic issues such as not owning a computer, then i cant see anyone having a issue with whatever name comes to be,,, I really just hope its not a small group of real estate flippers and outsiders who seem to have NO PRIDE IN OUR COMMUNITY that end up choosing the name ...

I like many of my neighbors take great pride in the neighborhood we live and grew up in, and quiet frankly we are getting sick of hearing that same small group of outsiders come in and tell us that we have no sense of pride in our community,,,,That is quite frankly insulting to us...

It only took international reporters who came here during the Holly Jones incident a day or two to realize just how strong a sense of community we have here,,,,all the reporters said the same thing, they were astonished at just how many people in this area knew each other,,,thats their words not mine....

The very first Public meeting held after holly went missing was not sponsored or even attended by politicians , or police, Yet on the street corner of perth and bloor over 200 people came together with just one days word of mouth notice. Then from that COMMUNITY meeting we all pulled together to put pressure on the government to force the police to hold that larger meeting at bishop Morocco....thats what you call a sense of COMMUNITY....

when neighbors like Pat Hood , Joe, Mike , Regi, Lucy, myself and a few others stood in front of joes house discussing the horrible justice system in this country that lets repeat offenders back out on our streets to harm kids, It was Pat who from that neighborhood discussion immediately went back in the house, drew up a draft and came out with the original Holly's law, which after she got it officially re written by a team of lawyers, and made up the petitions, we the community , YES MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY then went out to every subway station along the bloor line with the petition for people across the city to sign,,,that effort and idea that originated from the neighbors in this tiny COMMUNITY ended up sweeping across the nation and getting thousands upon thousands of signatures from Canadians across this nation... ,,, and that was all because our COMMUNITY again came together and talked to each other about issues that concern us here....

so to imply that we dont have a sense of community is ridiculous, and even more insulting , ,,,,,

alright granted so we dont have a yuppy jazz festival every summer, big deal we dont have festivals, ... but what we have got is an old history of people who do CARE about the community they live in, people who have lived here a very long time, and those that have moved here and found it to be such a great place that they now have no plans to leave either.. ..this might not be the bridle path or the beaches...but id rather live here in this working class COMMUNITY any day, festivals come a dime a dozen these days , but a good community is much harder to find and a good community is what we got and have always had here, and that comes from our working class roots in this industrial community here , which i am in no way ashamed of !

when the lansdowne drug problems were at their worst there was no similar big drug/crime problem here for two very good reasons...which i tried to explain to your planer at the meeting..

First our boundries are NOT FUZZY as your group and your ex-city planner guest speaker tried to suggest , but the actual physical RAIL CORRIDOR that surrounds us on all sides and creates a PHYSICAL WALL around our village, is a big part of the reason why the drug dealers didnt have easy access to our community...

so this whole FUZZY BOUNDARIES term is rather a odd term to apply to probably the ONLY community in the entire CITY OF TORONTO that actually DOES have a physical boundry that separates it from surrounding communities, and FORMS A WALL AROUND IT on all THREE of its sides...... THERE IS NOTHING FUZZY ABOUT THE RAILWAY TRACKS THAT PHYSICALLY MAKE UP OUR BOUNDARIES .....sorry the community on center island have physical boundry

Second those lansdowne drug dealers that did try and migrate to our community found out real fast that the neighbors were fast to get on the phone and call police again and again to report the drug dealers presence and location in the area,,,and thats only possible in a community where people know their neighbors, and we do... so i guess we have a sense of community after all and have had it for decades,,,,,

our Community and our Pride are old and intact despite all that has been thrown at us over the decades by un-caring politicians, police and shady please if your group of people want to suggest a new name(or whatever) by all means do it in a way so that ALL in the community are fully informed and get their say, and all should be fine,,,,but please stop coming here and calling our Community and our Pride Fuzzy... its not fuzzy to us at all !

you may not be intending to call us fuzzy in a derogatory manner, i dont know i cant read minds, but it kinda comes off as if we are a bunch of lost souls with no community or pride, which please note is the furthest from the truth...

Brett, I don't see a lot of

Brett, I don't see a lot of value in getting into a slinging match. Apparently explanations and answers to your questions make no difference, you are going to assume the worse and cast aspersions on people who are residents simply because you view newcomers as second-class. Everyone in the neighbourhood, people who have been here a month, a year or five years - renters and homeowners alike have a right to shape the future of the neighbourhood - it belongs to all of us.

You are making claims and drawing conclusions from things that nobody is asserting. I don't understand why you are dwelling on the past or your near obsession with crime (this neighbourhood is as safe as anyplace in the city). We are looking forward and see a great neighbourhood getting better.