Junction Triangle Boys' & Girls' Club controversy

Please use this forum to discuss the cancellation of the Junction Triangle Boys' and Girls' Club project on Ernest Ave.

(Note: Discussions started off-topic in another forum, and I am moving the messages here)

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Official spokesperson for the B&G?

I am not involved in the B&G club one way or the other, but I have read some of the posts on her purely out of curiosity.

Ms. Payne, with due respect, my personal observation and opinion is that you should not be posting on behalf of the B&G club on this or any other board. Your posts are extremely unprofessional in tone given you are attempting to speak as the spokesperson of a local organization affiliated with a national, charitable organization. I would respectfully suggest that the the B&G communicate transparently with its public through "official" channels and official spokesperson, rather than a casual commentary on a message board. Your attempts to impart information and reply to the other posters come across as personal and sarcastic. It's a public relations nightmare for the B&G club organization, which I'm sure is not your intention given you volunteer your time there. Best of luck with the club.


I apologize - the first sentence should have read on "here" rather than on "her. Kind regards.

B&G Club, website, etc.


I'm Vic Gedris. By using quotes around "Vic" are you trying to accuse me of a fake name? I'm the guy who runs this website, the moderator, etc. If you have any questions or concerns about how this website is run, feel free to contact me directly, or phone me.

For what it's worth, I've been trying to stay out of this whole controversy as I have absolutely nothing to do with the club, so I'm not sure why you're attacking me here more than a month after I posted that last message. Basically all I said is that there were some unanswered questions, which after all this time are STILL unanswered.

I'm glad that some details of this whole controversy are slowly coming out, and I hope it all comes to a positive conclusion. But everyone, please lay off of the attacks on other people.

Also, the B&G Club in the past has had a positive relationship with this website. Maybe Justin hasn't posted here directly, but he's been in contact and has passed on news items, photos, etc. Example.... Other B&G Club members, board members, etc. have been in touch over the years too. But now that this whole thing has blown up, suddenly it's "shoot the messenger" time.

I'm not interested in fighting with anyone, and I'd be happy to keep posting news from any local neighbourhood organization.


So that nick name Vic "The

So that nick name Vic "The All Knowing" is not true ? : )


I try to convince people it's true, but nobody falls for it :)

The Club

I heard from Ana's office that she is working hard on providing something for this area. She knows that there is a need. She also said that the issue was money but that doesn't match with what the club has said. I am getting tired of the silence. This area continues to be overlooked.

No answers

Boy this letter is short on answers and long on vague promises. Reminds me of past correspondence from Tony Ruprecht. Did you fight to save the club or just let it die? The decision to take the Ernest location was not made in haste but in desperation because they have been in limbo for over two years. You have now succeeded in prolonging that.
Why wasn't the community consulted about this? You made a decision and shoved it through and wasted a lot of money and volunteer weeks in the process. You owe the parents and children of this community some real answers immediately.

45 Ernest: Too Many Unanswered Questions

It is good to start hearing something from an organization that spends our money and I commend them for that. I do think though that there are many unanswered questions about the Dovercourt Boys and Girls Club process and governance that this letter does not answer and I am pretty sure that residents will want to see minutes from meetings and documentation.

Justin’s response has a lot of "I" and a lot of "we" but not a lot of Junction Triangle having any input, say, or access to information about how decisions affecting our children and donations that were or are made on our behalf. And in some ways this document is at odds with a letter circulated yesterday by the Board Chair Vivian Payne. Here are some of my thoughts.

--For an issue as serious as this I am surprised a release was not put forth by the entire Board and the Chair. Yesterday the Chair said she felt uncomfortable speaking without the rest of the Board and today we have an operations manager speaking on matters that were ultimately voted on by the Board in a press release issued at 7pm at night. Does the Board know about this release, does it have their stamp of approval? Who exactly is making decisions at DBGC? I am not exactly sure. This is a serious situation affecting hundreds of children and the health of a community, why has the entire Board not issued a statement? Or made a pledge to clear the air soon?

--In her letter of yesterday Board Chair Vivian Payne writes "One of our goals is more community decision-making involvement. " This seems at odds with Justin's letter where he states "In the next few weeks, senior staff will be meeting to form a working group tasked with compiling an Executive Plan written, designed and published specifically for the Junction Triangle Community." This doesn't sound like "community decision-making involvement" to me at all. A top down approach to making decisions about programs that we in part fund is not going to fly in Junction Triangle any more.

--There are a lot of vague comments in the letters like "We received new information during the summer which, frankly, doomed the project, and put the entire operation of the Dovercourt B & G Club at risk of bankruptcy. " This may be very true but so far no member of the public has seen one piece of documentation that shows this or explains the circumstances that led to this. There was ZERO opportunity for the community to get involved and possibly save the situation or at least brace themselves for this terrible blow to community pride. A screw up of this magnitude deserves far greater detail.

-- Payne states in her letter "I can say that services for the children in the Junction Triangle neighbourhood are now the top priority (other crises having been dealt with)". Exactly how many crisis situations are there at the Dovercourt Boys and Girls Club? Is the closing of the Junction Triangle in any way related to issues elsewhere? How could the Junction Triangle site as you say "put the entire operation of the Dovercourt B & G Club at risk of bankruptcy."? Is there a larger issue that possibly needs addressing? What exactly is the larger story? Is Junction Triangle the sacrificial lamb for other issues or locations? Explain.

-- I am alarmed by Payne's statement about staff that "I think they have some really good and practicable ideas about how to move forward in an even more inclusive way than running a single-site operation." This statement would seem to suggest that the issue is not with the governance of the Dovercourt Boys and Girls Club but in the actual structure of the outreach and it reaches the conclusion, once again with ZERO community input, that Junction Triangle doesn't need a single site option. Junction Triangle residents will be the judge of those kinds of assumptions from now on.

Frankly this statement reeks of pandering and condescension. It seems absurd to me that an organization that is involved with communities would see little value in a single site option that could provide many different things for an even greater amount of the community. It would seem obvious to most that a community that has no community center or central meeting place or medium sized meeting hall would benefit in many ways from a central single location operation. An operation that could be rented out to the community and others for all sorts of events that would PAY THE RENT on the location. And maybe too some others like literacy or kids playgroups could use the space for free because it would be the right thing to do. And how lovely to be only a few feet from Railpath, the single most important new public infrastructure in the community in 20 years? And what about the role of the community rallying around a central site of pride where children are celebrated? What could be more inclusive than having children see their club a respected and valuable part of the larger community?

I guess not for the children of Junction Triangle. They get second best. All they will get will be the same overcrowded pokey rooms spread out all over the place with no sense of cohesion. There will be no "here" here but apparently single site solutions work very well on the other side of Lansdowne.

--Probably most troubling is this statement "I am looking at Ernest as a "wrong turn". We have corrected our direction in canceling the project, that's all." The wasting of a few hundred thousand dollars of our (public) money and many donations is just a "wrong turn" that Dovercourt Boys and Girls Club Board and Operations Manager can back up, turn around , and drive away from? Dash the hopes of a community and its children and walk away "thats all". Waste a very large amount of money and hold nobody accountable, it was just a "wrong turn". How disgraceful and maddening to dismiss the loss of what could have been a massive game changer and soul creator so easily.

These late night letters from Justin and Vivian do not clear any air for residents of Junction Triangle; they only beg more questions. How much money exactly is walking away from this site going to cost including legal fees to break a lease? Who exactly is responsible for this colossal screw up? What attempts were made to raise new money or get a rent reduction or find additional rent payers to share the cost? Why wasn’t the community alerted to the issue in a timely fashion considering they are stakeholders? How many Board Members are from Junction Triangle compared to the breakdown of donated income and children served of DBGC? Why did one of the Board Members from Junction Triangle feel they had to resign? This situation deserves a full response and accounting from the Board of DBGC before one more cent of public money or donated services is spent.

Feb.3, 2011. \ I only became

Feb.3, 2011. \

I only became aware of these thoughts of yours tonight. You should have phoned me. You obviously know who I am and how to contact me. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous on your part. So you've been defaming me for a lot longer than I knew you were. Where's your honour? You could have asked for a meeting with the Board. But you didn't. You like to sit outside sniping at the people inside doing the work.

Some more information about the B&G Club

Hi Mr. Fava

Thanks for keeping me in the loop. We're working on a letter to the community right now to go out tomorrow. .

Anyway, there has been not a lot political in our decision making.. Our decision was made by ourselves once we had all the info, and the big shocker in the new info was that we were planning this huge investment when all we had was a permit for a professional dance studio! We don't run professional dance studios. The building is not permitted to be used as a children's space, it doesn't even have an HVAC system. It has no windows. There is no yard for the kids. Why it was ever conceived is incomprehensible to me. When we inherited this situation, we really explored how we might make a go of it, but all roads led to this end. There comes a time when you have to stop trying to make a silk purse out of a cow's ear.
Sent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.
Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell

This might answer your questions(REALLY)

Hi to everyone,

I have been monitoring the emails going back and forth, and find it rather pathetic that it has come down to this.

As a parent who is a member of the club and has his son enrolled as a member year round, I cannot believe the position that the club has been put into.

Just to clarify, my entire life has been ward 18. More than I can say for most of the candidates running.

At the last debate Kevin came out publicly and said that he was very instrumental in the procurement and negotiation of the lease. When and if this is true and is confirmed then Kevin should wear this. As he almost destroyed what has become an institution in our ward. The Boys and Girls club has been around more than forty years and he almost took it down in less than two years.

I almost find laughable if it wasn't so pathetic how he was trying to gain points, as Ana was being questioned as to her involvement with the club (by one of the members). When Ana snapped backed and asked her to "get her facts" straight next time. I know if the club suffers so will Kevin at the polls, and as for Ana, I know that member and I am sure you will have your hands full with her.

I think it would be best if none of these two spoke of the club as if they have not done anything or have any interest in its betterment. The proof is "in the pudding".

I think it would almost be best if a closer look as at to what happened at the club can be done. And, the people responsible should be made to answer.

Thank you,
Vince DeMasi
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

B&G Club Open Your Books and Minutes

Kevin Beaulieu and Ana Bailao have nothing to do with the day to day running or the Board of this organization so dragging them into this makes no sense; even I was told great things a short while ago by DBGC so many people have been deceived.

It is clear though that the Dovercourt Boys and Girls Club has a lot to answer for as they are the ones legally responsible for this site and the funds. What happened ? I have not heard one credible explanation for this fiasco.

The record shows that the City has bent over backward to help the club and so did the new landlord. The vague reasons for closing down the new location just don't hold up to even modest examination. What is the real issue behind all this?

The DBGC needs to open it's books and minutes to the community that funds it and explain step by step starting a year or so ago what has been going on and where money has been going. Is that too much to ask of a charity?

The Boys and Girls Clubs have done a lot of great work and it pains me to see what is happening but sometimes you need to dig and deal with what you find in order for something to survive and you also have to stand up for the children of your hood when you feel they are paying the price for other peoples mistakes.

The Boys and Girls Clubs

I am reading almost all the comments and I want to know what we can do to fix this problem. As a mother, I am worried for the kids and I don’t want to put more wood to the fire I just want to help and find solutions for the good well of our kids and our community.

2 Communities, 2 Different Messages from DBGC

I find it strange that at the same time that the DBGC is shutting down the Junction Triangle site and warning of dire consequences they are in the press celebrating all the money they have raised and all the celebrities that are involved.


They don't mention Junction Triangle or the shut down in the story even though it happened at the same time. Something seems odd to me about this. The public gets a letter that's all sunshine but the we get a letter of doom and gloom. Is this the same organization?


Marjolein is part of the board again?

She was asked to resign years (2007 or 8) ago by the former board due to conflict of interest because she worked for Adam's office.
She served on the original Board of Directors for 5 years. Is the conflict of interest now gone?

Forwarding a copy of an email from the Interm Chair B&G Club

Hi Mr. Fava

I am Vivian Payne, Interim Chair of the new Board of Directors for the Dovercourt Boys' and Girls' Club.

Your comments come just at the right time. We are just now finalizing our information letter to go out to the community. You are right, we are cancelling the Ernest site, and we are planning a community meeting to explain the situation. It is really complicated, and we do have very good reasons, which will be explained, I promise. At the AGM, there were things that we did not know that affected the viability of the project, hence the optimism about Ernest that you saw at that meeting. That optimism was genuine. We received new information during the summer which, frankly, doomed the project, and put the entire operation of the Dovercourt B & G Club at risk of bankruptcy.

I don't want to say too much more right now because I hesitate to say too much without consulting with the other 15 Board members. Just because I am the Interim Chair, does not, I feel, give me the authority to speak for the others but I thought you should have some response. I am trusting that the other Board members will forgive me this once. We have adopted a very democratic model for this new Board, which is, I believe, one of the best Boards in Dovercourt's history. One of our goals is more community decision-making involvement. You're not seeing that happen yet because we've only just started to work together as a group, but you will see evidence of it soon, and I hope you will become part of that.

I can say that services for the children in the Junction Triangle neighbourhood are now the top priority (other crises having been dealt with) and while we may not have the Ernest site as a home base, we are looking at ways to actually increase services to children in the area. How to accomplish this has been the subject of very passionate discussion in our first two meetings, all discussion with the theme "How do we do more?". Our Operations Manager, Justin Hanna, and our two Program Directors (Tony Palermo and Matteo Severino) have been absolutely stellar in their commitment to the children and their families, and I think they have some really good and practicable ideas about how to move forward in an even more inclusive way than running a single-site operation. They are the employees on the ground, and we on the Board are going to take a lot of direction from them.

I am looking at Ernest as a "wrong turn". We have corrected our direction in cancelling the project, that's all. This doesn't mean that where we end up, now that we're on a better course, won't be wonderful, and possibly better, than what was originally conceived.

Email me back. I'd be happy to meet with you. And you can copy this email to others on your list. I'd have copied them myself but I couldn't figure out how to do it. I hit "reply" not "reply all" at the beginning of writing, and then I was worried I'd lose the text if I tried to change it after I'd started writing.

Vivian Payne
---- Original Message -----

this is so surprising. they

this is so surprising. they should certainly let the neighbourhood know what's happened there..as well as all those folks that volunteered their time/materials etc etc.

JT Children Ripped Off Again

Wait a second, the children of JT got screwed around a few years ago and then a local business worked out a deal that included an entire year of work which included of donations from companies, the community, highschool students,the City, the United Way, paying rent for a year while the new centre was being built, plus new sidewalks in front and now on the first day of school the Boys and Girls Club decides without any public notification to walk away? What the heck is going on here ?

This is an absolute outrage. I don't know the reasoning behind this or the details but the honourable and accountable thing would be for the BGC to meet the JT community in person and explain what is going on and open their books. Where did our money go folks? And now how much of our money is about to be thrown out?

If the feisty JT community was looking for a unifying purpose, this deplorable dashing of childrens opportunities is it. Why should our kids be second class citizens?