In fairness to Tony, who I admit is hardly ever seen, did in fact get back to me after a week of trying and we had a long talk.
I don't feel that I can go into everything we talked about BUT he was clear with me that he is for electric and not for diesel.
Obviously this puts him at odds with his own Liberal leadership and would be a concern for him given that his margin of victory drops every election. He has attended some community meetings and has sent a letter to the Transport Minister with his concerns.
Hopefully he will be able to be part of the green process and stand with the community.
I understand everybody's concern here regarding the environment: diesel trains, construction noise, assessment fast tracking, etc, etc. However, this specific issue is to do with the davenport diamond best alignment, not diesel trains and not construction noise. These issues are another fight for another day in my opinion. The davenport diamond should be built, but let's focus on pushing for the best of the three options presented by GO for our neighbourhood. If we focus too much on the diesel issue, we risk concentrating on the main issue: which option do we want running through our neighbourhood? Do we want wallace closed to traffic? more vehicles using symington? pedestrian crossings ignored? Elevated trains in our backyards? No stop for the neighbourhood planned? The possibility of freight trains using the line (3rd option) for the first time?
If we don't focus on these issues now, we may find ourselves with an alignment we don't want, while fighting another battle.
Just wanted to bring to your attention that that the notice for the neighbourhood naming event on May 13 has been posted on the SJTRA site. You can get all the details about the speakers and the event plans on this site or by visiting the new Fuzzy Boundaries web site at www.fuzzyboundaries.ca I hope that all of you that have been participating in the discussion here can make it out (ranajit, Vic, scottD, dbanerjee, Michael Armstrong and Whitney).
Thats the last time I ever saw him. He can run, but can he hide?!
I've emailed some of the parties listed on the cleantrain.ca site. I encourage anyone who is concerned about this matter to do the same, as it affects all of us.
I have been trying to talk to Tony about this for a week. He is never in his office when they say he will be, he has not returned calls and he is mistaken that "sending somebody to a meeting" on his behalf is the same as being there yourself and having a position; especially when your government will be responsible for polluting our area for the next 25 years. No wonder he is hiding.
Residents should also be aware that it has been estimated that 12 000 piles will have to be driven to construct the structure. GO has chosen to use diesel pile driving, which is the cheapest method available to them, to drive in the apprx. 2200 piles at the Junction diamond underpass grade separation that is currently being constructed. The noise and ground vibration has been extreme and driven residents out of their homes during construction hours. As a community, you will NEED to have GO capitulate to use less destructive methods such as silent pile driving used to construct rail projects in urban areas throughout Europe and Japan.
I had to leave a bit early and didn't hear that part. Did anyone take notes of what was said last night at the meeting? It might be a good idea to get a round-up of what the officials said so that neighbourhood opposition can be cemented and we can start taking this to the media as a group of concerned citizens.
You should be alarmed that the GO "environmental person" stated that they will not be integrating their study with the study being done for the Georgetown expansion even though the two lines are 1800 feet apart. Thats bad science in my opinion immoral. So neither study will include the other in its data! Let Tony Ruprecht know how you feel about this.
I attended last night's open house and wasn't impressed with the lack of answers to a number of questions the residents of our neighbourhood had for the GO reps.
I was opposed to this project as soon as I read the flyer that Giambrone's office dropped in my mailbiox, and I'm even more so now that I've seen the three proposals put forth by GO. I'm not a NIMBY, I believe in public transit/mass transit as a solution to the environmental issues of having thousands of cars on the road, but is diesel the way to go?
I think our community has to rally on this issue and oppose this build until GO comes to their senses and starts talking electric trains.... or no additional trains at all.
Whitney, you have a great grasp of the situation and I don't think I would disagree agree with anything you say. However a name could add a lot to the neighbourhood and we will be discussing those implications at an event we are organizing on Wednesday, May 13 at the Perth Avenue Co-op at 7 p.m. The event notice is just being prepared, but I can tell you that local historian Michael Monastyrskyj and former City of Toronto Planner Beate Bowron will be discussing the neighbourhood's history and the importance of neighbourhood identities. I hope that you can make it out for the event.
1. Hey haven't I heard that somewhere before? Oh yeah, "The Junction" is where our neighbours to the northwest live. Adding the word "triangle"isn't the way to carve out our own identity. (And if I lived in the Junction, I'd be peeved about having my name ripped off -- they've done a lot of work to create their brand.)
About naming in general.
1. Whether a name has been used in the past isn't going to affect the success of its adoption. Any name that isn't long or confusing will be used and accepted if you simultaneously push its adoption by the people and organizations who talk about us (e.g. Media, City Council, geographers, real estate).
2. Our neighbourhood's reputation will depend on how we communicate what happens here, not on the name itself. Think about it: There is nothing inherently positive or negative about the words "Apple", "Boeing", "The South Junction Triangle Residents Association", "Adam Giambrone" or "The Beach". How we feel about them is based on what we know about them and not what they are called.
I thought I'd start off the comments section with some of my own personal observations and opinions.
Since there are no details available yet, my comments here are based purely on rumours and my own observations. :-) But this is a project that may have huge impact on our neighbourhood, so we should be prepared to speak up on it and demand the best.
In no particular order:
The overall purpose of this project seems like a good thing. Grade separation will minimize delays from north-south and east-west trains waiting for each other to clear the tracks, especially as rail service increases.
If an underpass is built, then Dupont St. would have to be raised back to being a level crossing. This could make the street between Campbell and Lansdowne much friendlier.
If built as an overpass, residents on Antler and Rankin may have trains raised up high in their backyards.
Can this project include plans to incorporate a future railway station near Bloor St. to connect to Lansdowne subway?
Additional pedestrian crossings should be considered (e.g. Paton, Antler/Lappin)
What will be done to minimize noise and vibrations?
Will the design include the future electrification of the corridor?
Wallace Ave. crossing closure: If this project goes through, there's a possibility that the level crossing at Wallace Ave. will be closed. An underpass or bridge can't be at more than a 2% grade, which takes a significant amount of space to ramp up.
If Wallace is closed, that leaves Dupont as the ONLY crossing between Davenport and Bloor.
Lansdowne subway station would be completely cut off, except by going down to Bloor St.
Businesses in the Wallace/Campbell/Lansdowne area would be harmed
More traffic pushed to Symington/Bloor and Dupont (which is planned for narrowing)
Putting the tracks in an underpass could possibly make the trains quieter in the northern part of the neighbourhood.
I also heard that this grade separation project was talked about already a few years ago. Does anyone have any details about what was discussed back then? Were any conclusions made? What issues were brought up?
Please leave your own comments here.
There is also some more discussion of this project on the following websites:
GO to pay $160 million for rail line through Toronto TheStar.com - Ontario - GO to pay $160 million for rail line through Toronto
April 08, 2009
THE CANADIAN PRESS
GO Transit has agreed to buy a strategically important rail line that runs through Toronto from Canadian National Railway (TSX: CNR).
The provincially owned commuter service will pay $160 million to buy the track
GO currently runs its Georgetown commuter rail service over the line, which runs from near the lakeshore in downtown Toronto along a northwestern route to connect with CN track in Brampton, Ont.
GO says it will be better able to build new infrastructure and expand its operations by owning the rail corridor.
It says Via passenger trains and CN freight trains will continue to use the line after the ownership changes.
Basically this story shows that Pinewood and Castlepoint lost in their bid to open Filmport. Then the biz tanked and things changed and now they are essentially taking over Filmport from the original owner. I would say this is the end of the road for Pinewood/Castlepoint building a studio on Sterling.
It is not a mystery that the intersection of Perth-Royce(Dupont) is a bit of a *#%$-hole with a fronting "strip mall" which will likely be leveled much like one that was at Symington and Dupont which is now a vacant lot ready for another condo. Memories of Landsdowne and Dupont or whatever vacant plot two to six blocks away that is a done deal. Anyway, I grew up in Parkdale where my grandmother and son were born and we always knew this particular area as the Junction. Add a "Triangle" to the name starting in the 70s if you want. Hey: Parkdale was rough, the Junction a no-go-zone. These days I live here on Edwin Ave. where my daughter was born and it is a much different place much like Parkdale or Harlem or whatever recently gentrified area that you want to talk about. Anyway, to me including the name "Junction" intuitively seems to be the way to go unless you want to tie in the Rolls [Royce] dealership on Dupont near Shaw with upcoming developments over here. I'd vote "Junction Triangle" unless I was a developer in which case I'd call our hood (dibs on the name): The Royce Junction!!
Michael
This bill wont hold up under the Charter of Rights because there are aspects that lack due process. The reason that some people are pushing (under the umbrella of provincial law) it because our Federal Government, those with the actual power to change the criminal code, don't want to ban handguns even though they have only one purpose.
The problem lies in with the Harper government. This story is the Star shows the kind of mindset of the Harper Government:
Remember this story the next time you vote for the supposed "law and order" Conservative Party. I would add that this bill is pretty cosmetic and will do nothing to stop criminals from using handguns.
Yes, I've seen the archive pictures of people playing baseball in Perth Square. Older residents, at least, know that this part of Dupont used to be called Royce. There used to be a prominent business called Royce-Dupont Poultry. I'm not sure, but I think the name changed in the fifties. I'll have to check.
However, I'm not sure you got the point of my first message. You are discussing the name of the neighbourhood some people, including myself, know as the Junction Triangle. Kevin Putnam pointed out that this name was only coined in the 1970s. That was news to me but having looked into it, I now think Kevin is right. The earliest reference to the name I could find is the same 1976 Dick Beddoes column Kevin mentions.
When Jutta showed me the documents about the creation of Campbell Park, I learned for the first time that the area I know as the Junction Triangle used to be called Perth-Royce and that that designation was recognized by the City.
That said, I don't know how much of a neighbourhood identity local residents had back then, just as I don't know whether people living in my current "Wallace-Emerson" area have any sense of neighbourhood identity. Perth-Royce is an intersection (Perth-Dupont) that would have served as a handy reference point, but did the people living in this area feel any sense of pride or loyalty towards their "Perth-Royce" area, the way many people in Parkdale and the Beach did (and do)? I don't know. Maybe, but maybe not.
If you go to the Toronto.ca site and look under their Photo Archive Database. Type in "Perth Avenue" and alot of old picks from the 20's and 30's will appear.
I found a few baseball pics there aswell. You can see the old u-haul property as well as the GO station (no bridge - same level with Bloor St) among many other pics of the neighborhood.
Also, Dupont Street use to be Royce Avenue back in 1910's. Alot of the database refers to it this way.
I work for a group called CELOS. We're interested in local history and have posted some material on our Campbell Park website. The other day Jutta Mason who leads CELOS gave me a small stack of documents about the creation of Campbell Park. Some of these are letters written by a group called the Perth-Royce Community Council. On June 23, 1944 Beryl Campbell, the group's secretary, sent a letter to the Commissioner of Parks. It reads in part:
The Perth-Royce community, as you probably know, is that area in West Toronto enclosed on three sides by railroad tracks with Bloor Street as the southern boundary.
I went to the Toronto Public Library website and searched old issues of the Globe and Star. I found several references to the "Perth-Royce district." The references I found date from the 1940s to 1950. A 1944 Globe article refers to an organization called the Perth-Royce Ramblers. A 1948 article mentions the Perth-Royce Community Fair. There also was a Perth-Royce Softball League. When I searched the Globe and Star using "Perth-Royce" most of the references were to baseball and softball. There used to be a lot of baseball in Perth Square.
In fairness to Tony, who I admit is hardly ever seen, did in fact get back to me after a week of trying and we had a long talk.
I don't feel that I can go into everything we talked about BUT he was clear with me that he is for electric and not for diesel.
Obviously this puts him at odds with his own Liberal leadership and would be a concern for him given that his margin of victory drops every election. He has attended some community meetings and has sent a letter to the Transport Minister with his concerns.
Hopefully he will be able to be part of the green process and stand with the community.
I understand everybody's concern here regarding the environment: diesel trains, construction noise, assessment fast tracking, etc, etc. However, this specific issue is to do with the davenport diamond best alignment, not diesel trains and not construction noise. These issues are another fight for another day in my opinion. The davenport diamond should be built, but let's focus on pushing for the best of the three options presented by GO for our neighbourhood. If we focus too much on the diesel issue, we risk concentrating on the main issue: which option do we want running through our neighbourhood? Do we want wallace closed to traffic? more vehicles using symington? pedestrian crossings ignored? Elevated trains in our backyards? No stop for the neighbourhood planned? The possibility of freight trains using the line (3rd option) for the first time?
If we don't focus on these issues now, we may find ourselves with an alignment we don't want, while fighting another battle.
Just wanted to bring to your attention that that the notice for the neighbourhood naming event on May 13 has been posted on the SJTRA site. You can get all the details about the speakers and the event plans on this site or by visiting the new Fuzzy Boundaries web site at www.fuzzyboundaries.ca I hope that all of you that have been participating in the discussion here can make it out (ranajit, Vic, scottD, dbanerjee, Michael Armstrong and Whitney).
Thats the last time I ever saw him. He can run, but can he hide?!
I've emailed some of the parties listed on the cleantrain.ca site. I encourage anyone who is concerned about this matter to do the same, as it affects all of us.
I have been trying to talk to Tony about this for a week. He is never in his office when they say he will be, he has not returned calls and he is mistaken that "sending somebody to a meeting" on his behalf is the same as being there yourself and having a position; especially when your government will be responsible for polluting our area for the next 25 years. No wonder he is hiding.
Residents should also be aware that it has been estimated that 12 000 piles will have to be driven to construct the structure. GO has chosen to use diesel pile driving, which is the cheapest method available to them, to drive in the apprx. 2200 piles at the Junction diamond underpass grade separation that is currently being constructed. The noise and ground vibration has been extreme and driven residents out of their homes during construction hours. As a community, you will NEED to have GO capitulate to use less destructive methods such as silent pile driving used to construct rail projects in urban areas throughout Europe and Japan.
Of course, it is also important that all trains be electric: http://www.cleantrain.ca/
To keep up to date with the West Toronto Diamond grade separation community group: http://piledrivers.easyurl.net
I had to leave a bit early and didn't hear that part. Did anyone take notes of what was said last night at the meeting? It might be a good idea to get a round-up of what the officials said so that neighbourhood opposition can be cemented and we can start taking this to the media as a group of concerned citizens.
The presentation notes from this meeting are supposed to be circulated by GO Transit soon. I will post them as soon as they are available.
You should be alarmed that the GO "environmental person" stated that they will not be integrating their study with the study being done for the Georgetown expansion even though the two lines are 1800 feet apart. Thats bad science in my opinion immoral. So neither study will include the other in its data! Let Tony Ruprecht know how you feel about this.
I attended last night's open house and wasn't impressed with the lack of answers to a number of questions the residents of our neighbourhood had for the GO reps.
I was opposed to this project as soon as I read the flyer that Giambrone's office dropped in my mailbiox, and I'm even more so now that I've seen the three proposals put forth by GO. I'm not a NIMBY, I believe in public transit/mass transit as a solution to the environmental issues of having thousands of cars on the road, but is diesel the way to go?
I think our community has to rally on this issue and oppose this build until GO comes to their senses and starts talking electric trains.... or no additional trains at all.
I notice that all the hip parts of the city want to be a "Triangle" now. At least we could claim to be first at something for a change. : )
Whitney, you have a great grasp of the situation and I don't think I would disagree agree with anything you say. However a name could add a lot to the neighbourhood and we will be discussing those implications at an event we are organizing on Wednesday, May 13 at the Perth Avenue Co-op at 7 p.m. The event notice is just being prepared, but I can tell you that local historian Michael Monastyrskyj and former City of Toronto Planner Beate Bowron will be discussing the neighbourhood's history and the importance of neighbourhood identities. I hope that you can make it out for the event.
My thoughts:
About "Junction Triangle"
1. Hey haven't I heard that somewhere before? Oh yeah, "The Junction" is where our neighbours to the northwest live. Adding the word "triangle"isn't the way to carve out our own identity. (And if I lived in the Junction, I'd be peeved about having my name ripped off -- they've done a lot of work to create their brand.)
About naming in general.
1. Whether a name has been used in the past isn't going to affect the success of its adoption. Any name that isn't long or confusing will be used and accepted if you simultaneously push its adoption by the people and organizations who talk about us (e.g. Media, City Council, geographers, real estate).
2. Our neighbourhood's reputation will depend on how we communicate what happens here, not on the name itself. Think about it: There is nothing inherently positive or negative about the words "Apple", "Boeing", "The South Junction Triangle Residents Association", "Adam Giambrone" or "The Beach". How we feel about them is based on what we know about them and not what they are called.
Cheers
Please see above for an email update from Adam Giambrone.
I thought I'd start off the comments section with some of my own personal observations and opinions.
Since there are no details available yet, my comments here are based purely on rumours and my own observations. :-) But this is a project that may have huge impact on our neighbourhood, so we should be prepared to speak up on it and demand the best.
In no particular order:
I also heard that this grade separation project was talked about already a few years ago. Does anyone have any details about what was discussed back then? Were any conclusions made? What issues were brought up?
Please leave your own comments here.
There is also some more discussion of this project on the following websites:
In today's Toronto Star:
http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/615729
EDIT:
And the GO press release is here:
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/April2009/08/c7954.html
Basically this story shows that Pinewood and Castlepoint lost in their bid to open Filmport. Then the biz tanked and things changed and now they are essentially taking over Filmport from the original owner. I would say this is the end of the road for Pinewood/Castlepoint building a studio on Sterling.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090404.FILM04GTAART22...
Closing comments on this article. Discussions can continue in the GSSE Forum.
Illegalsigns.ca posted another article about the illegal sign at 1485 Dupont St:
http://illegalsigns.ca/2009/03/30/1485-dupont-street-and-sign-face-alter...
It is not a mystery that the intersection of Perth-Royce(Dupont) is a bit of a *#%$-hole with a fronting "strip mall" which will likely be leveled much like one that was at Symington and Dupont which is now a vacant lot ready for another condo. Memories of Landsdowne and Dupont or whatever vacant plot two to six blocks away that is a done deal. Anyway, I grew up in Parkdale where my grandmother and son were born and we always knew this particular area as the Junction. Add a "Triangle" to the name starting in the 70s if you want. Hey: Parkdale was rough, the Junction a no-go-zone. These days I live here on Edwin Ave. where my daughter was born and it is a much different place much like Parkdale or Harlem or whatever recently gentrified area that you want to talk about. Anyway, to me including the name "Junction" intuitively seems to be the way to go unless you want to tie in the Rolls [Royce] dealership on Dupont near Shaw with upcoming developments over here. I'd vote "Junction Triangle" unless I was a developer in which case I'd call our hood (dibs on the name): The Royce Junction!!
Michael
This bill wont hold up under the Charter of Rights because there are aspects that lack due process. The reason that some people are pushing (under the umbrella of provincial law) it because our Federal Government, those with the actual power to change the criminal code, don't want to ban handguns even though they have only one purpose.
The problem lies in with the Harper government. This story is the Star shows the kind of mindset of the Harper Government:
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/604702
Remember this story the next time you vote for the supposed "law and order" Conservative Party. I would add that this bill is pretty cosmetic and will do nothing to stop criminals from using handguns.
Hi Ranajit,
Yes, I've seen the archive pictures of people playing baseball in Perth Square. Older residents, at least, know that this part of Dupont used to be called Royce. There used to be a prominent business called Royce-Dupont Poultry. I'm not sure, but I think the name changed in the fifties. I'll have to check.
However, I'm not sure you got the point of my first message. You are discussing the name of the neighbourhood some people, including myself, know as the Junction Triangle. Kevin Putnam pointed out that this name was only coined in the 1970s. That was news to me but having looked into it, I now think Kevin is right. The earliest reference to the name I could find is the same 1976 Dick Beddoes column Kevin mentions.
When Jutta showed me the documents about the creation of Campbell Park, I learned for the first time that the area I know as the Junction Triangle used to be called Perth-Royce and that that designation was recognized by the City.
That said, I don't know how much of a neighbourhood identity local residents had back then, just as I don't know whether people living in my current "Wallace-Emerson" area have any sense of neighbourhood identity. Perth-Royce is an intersection (Perth-Dupont) that would have served as a handy reference point, but did the people living in this area feel any sense of pride or loyalty towards their "Perth-Royce" area, the way many people in Parkdale and the Beach did (and do)? I don't know. Maybe, but maybe not.
If you go to the Toronto.ca site and look under their Photo Archive Database. Type in "Perth Avenue" and alot of old picks from the 20's and 30's will appear.
I found a few baseball pics there aswell. You can see the old u-haul property as well as the GO station (no bridge - same level with Bloor St) among many other pics of the neighborhood.
Also, Dupont Street use to be Royce Avenue back in 1910's. Alot of the database refers to it this way.
The collection is very extensive. Check it out, if you get the chance:
http://gencat.eloquent-systems.com/webcat/request/DoMenuRequest?SystemNa...
Ranajit
I work for a group called CELOS. We're interested in local history and have posted some material on our Campbell Park website. The other day Jutta Mason who leads CELOS gave me a small stack of documents about the creation of Campbell Park. Some of these are letters written by a group called the Perth-Royce Community Council. On June 23, 1944 Beryl Campbell, the group's secretary, sent a letter to the Commissioner of Parks. It reads in part:
I went to the Toronto Public Library website and searched old issues of the Globe and Star. I found several references to the "Perth-Royce district." The references I found date from the 1940s to 1950. A 1944 Globe article refers to an organization called the Perth-Royce Ramblers. A 1948 article mentions the Perth-Royce Community Fair. There also was a Perth-Royce Softball League. When I searched the Globe and Star using "Perth-Royce" most of the references were to baseball and softball. There used to be a lot of baseball in Perth Square.
Yes, The Star released a version 3 of their map. Here's a list of the changes:
http://thestar.blogs.com/maps/2009/03/map-of-the-week-the-stars-neighbou...
Unfortunately they still left out the Sterling / south Perth area.
The "Silverthorn" error is Google's fault though. The Star has no control over the underlying map.