To be very brief since I'm on a smart phone and not my computer,
Diesel is a big waste, and electric more cost effective (not cheaper) when you factor in the other circumstances,
But GO themselves plan this line to serve downtown biz commuters going to PIA
Well first of all they are about 15 yrs late or more, since the target audience they plan has rapidly adopted the island airport for biz commuting, and that is today, forget about in another 4yrs, those commuters are alredy getting good service and more carries will be flying from the island within the next 12-24mths, so the client they hope for will not have any reason to go to PIA which now goes back to who will be using this thing kicking all this diesel particles into the air running empty???
Secondly, by making it electric it can make local stops serving the communities it run through which now serves a dual purpose, it could stop in liberty village, west queen west, roncy, Bloor, Dupont, junction etc, now they can appeal to two audiences and not just the targeted audience, it almost serves as a more immediate downtown relief line that might never get built, so why find the money twice for duplication of service when by making this line electric once can serve a dual purpose
Not to mention the health benefits, noise, etc etc
To be very brief since I'm on a smart phone and not my computer,
Diesel is a big waste, and electric more cost effective (not cheaper) when you factor in the other circumstances,
But GO themselves plan this line to serve downtown biz commuters going to PIA
Well first of all they are about 15 yrs late or more, since the target audience they plan has rapidly adopted the island airport for biz commuting, and that is today, forget about in another 4yrs, those commuters are alredy getting good service and more carries will be flying from the island within the next 12-24mths, so the client they hope for will not have any reason to go to PIA which now goes back to who will be using this thing kicking all this diesel particles into the air running empty???
Secondly, by making it electric it can make local stops serving the communities it run through which now serves a dual purpose, it could stop in liberty village, west queen west, roncy, Bloor, Dupont, junction etc, now they can appeal to two audiences and not just the targeted audience, it almost serves as a more immediate downtown relief line that might never get built, so why find the money twice for duplication of service when by making this line electric once can serve a dual purpose
Not to mention the health benefits, noise, etc etc
I was there, for the majority of debate was only the three, Christine, Jonah & Frank
And I'd say Christine was the only major disappointment, when asked about if she completed the survey she said we can come to speak with her AFTER the election....? What's the point, maybe she didn't know what the survey was or didn't care that voters wanted her survey opinion BEFORE the election so can decide to vote for her, that's normally how these things work, you think???
Maybe the four candidates you are talking about was at another debate not the one last night at DPNC
The plan is not secret, it has been publicly available in Metrolinx's documents for years. The 400 number is the APL plus Georgetown expanded service. That 400 number also does not include the addition of 2 way all day service on the sister branch which is the Barrie line so the actual number is much higher. The Barrie line vanished from Metrolinx's vocabulary after they floated the idea of closing off Wallace Avenue but has since been put back into their "The Big Move" maps. The number of trains will of course depend on demand but these are MX's numbers so we assume that some amount of research has gone into them. This information is available at the MX website. If you wish to argue these numbers you will have to take it up with MX.
Omar, hi my name is Jack Fava. I also live in Davenport riding on Symington Avenue.
The decision to have only the mainstream parties was decide by a debate committee which I was part of, only moving forward to what the residents wanted to hear. I remember one election and Davenport Perth organizing other debates and inviting couple from other parties and they just hijacked the debate, some were really out there with their ideas and stuff. The residents/audience didn't like it and said no more, next time only mainstream parties. I also organized a debate inviting other then the mainstream and they also didn't like it. If it's such a need to have a debate with all the candidates, how come no one has organized a debate inviting all candidates???
Regarding the list of demands, nothing new. They are been spoken about from the other candidates and people like me, nothing new. This is a very deverse riding, not only by the parties they support, but demands as well. You might be taken back, but there might be some residents who might even disagree with some of your demands that you have listed.. JF
Given the debt the province has, a 7% discount rate seems more appropriate. That would give a present value to all future savings of around $150 million. So we would be paying over $10 cash for every dollar that would ever be saved.
What gets me is the people who say there will be 400 trains a day running. "Hi, I'm Jonah, and I expect you to believe there is a secret plot to run a train to the airport every 3 1/2 minutes in the dead of the night when the subway isn't even running."
Expectations for voter intelligence are low.
Listed below are demands from the election platform of the Communist Party of Canada. Would you say that you - and hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions - agree with most of the following demands? Nothing fringy about them - except perhaps to the mainstream parties and the mass media who don't want to touch many of these issues.
(By the way, just last week the Republican Party in the US held one of its nomination meetings. Guess how many people were on the stage? Nine! I would have thought Perth-Davenport can do the same).
*Good Jobs for All!
*Repeal the HST! Sharply increase taxes on banks and corporations.
*One universal, quality, public, secular school system.
*$7/day childcare; eliminate post-secondary tuition fees
*Quality public health care system; no public/private hospitals.
*Full equality for women, racial minorities, gays and lesbians.
*Affordable housing, rents, transit.
*End police violence; strict civilian control over police.
*Significant increase in minimum wage, pensions, social assistance, disability and EI payments.
*Just settlement of Aboriginal land claims.
*Protect the Environment; Nationalize natural resources, energy.
*Enact anti-scab laws; no union busting, workers’ right to strike. Enforce health and safety laws.
*No to cutbacks, or privatization, of municipal services.
*Reduce Property Tax by 75%; upload education, health, housing, welfare and public transit costs.
*Democratic electoral reform; proportional representation; Permanent residents to have vote in local elections.
*No to war; convert military to civilian spending. Canada out of Afghanistan and Libya now!
CityNews has an article and video profile of Davenport, including interviews with Martins, Schein, and Russell, plus a few residents etc. A bit of local political history, quick gloss-over of the rail issues (with footage from the Wallace Bridge), etc......
Metrolinx's own studies support much of what I have said and people can look at the links and decide as most have.To be honest I dont really understand half of what you are talking about and now you seem to be into insulting the intelligence of and basking in some kind of perceived intellectual superiority over those who post here and I am not interested in that.
Yes, All four main candidates were present, they debated for about 50 mins and then the last 10 mins was given to Allix Thompson-Party for Human Rights. For me I didn't see any big winners tonight, disappointed, plus Dale doesn't make it easy on the candidates. I was really surprised and disappointed with Jonah and Frank who I felt should of been the most versed, specially with Q&A, as they have more political experience. I am not sure if it me only, but Jonah looked very uncomfortable tonight. With Cristina I was bothered by her reading her script, instead of looking at the audience and making contact with the voters, she kepted reading her notes.
If I were to score the debate on the candidate over all and this is my opinion- Cristina did the best, tied in 2nd was Frank & Jonah. Kirk I won't go there there is not much to say. JF
The equipment, the operating plan, the public-private partnership that built and operates the system and other aspects of the River LINE represent new and innovative approaches to rail transit service.
The first low-floor, articulated diesel multiple unit (DMU) light rail cars in the United States
NJ Transit has been outstanding in seeing the benefits and funding them.
He probably just got carried away quoting something and wrote a bunch of stuff he didn't really believe.
So, did anyone watch tonight's debate on Rogers TV? Which candidates participated? On Twitter it seems that only Frank, Jonah, and Cristina were there:
"RogersTVToronto Rogers TV Toronto
Tonight at 8pm on The Local Campaign we welcome Candidates from Davenport @CMartins4MPP and @jonahschein and Frank de Jong"
Any interesting highlights? Anything worth following up on at Thursday evening's debate at the DPNC?
You would have us believe the Medical Officer of Health would extensively quote something he disagreed with and not mention anything about his disagreement.
I've got to watch some Groucho sometime - I love that quote.
Reading material is not the same as a reference. The issue is that you have failed to understand publicly available information and I guess you might feel motivated to obfuscate your reasoning. But that doesn't really change much.
Last year you were convinced that the cost of equipment would go through the roof. You went on at length and typically offered no specific references in an attempt to avoid accountability. I believe you misunderstood the bias of an industry spokesman. Of course when the contract for vehicles was signed that whole thing went unceremoniously out the window.
This time the question of who are you gonna believe doesn't matter. It's relatively straightforward to do the heavy lifting with your own lying eyes. If you don't have a financial calculator there are some web sites that will help you find the present value of an annuity. Using numbers from the electrification study highlights. It looks like the recommended plan would cost $1.7 billion, take 8 years to put into service and save 18 million per year. So using a discount rate of 5% calculating the value of an 18 million dollar annuity for 200 years I get a present value of $244 million dollars. So you are spending $1.7 billion and the present value of the savings are $244 million. That's not a good deal. It doesn't matter who you trust anybody can calculate this for themselves.
For what it's worth the clean train coalition is not a credible source.
First posted: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 10:30 AM EDT
TORONTO - The Union-Pearson air-rail link will run on electricity if Andrea Horwath becomes premier, the NDP leader told an appreciative west-end crowd at a post-debate breakfast Wednesday.
“There’s a Liberal plan to send diesel trains through your backyard here in Davenport,” Horwath said.
“It’s a good example of what happens when a government gets out of touch: They take everyday people like yourselves for granted.”
The government has said it will launch the new service from Union Station to the Pearson airport in 2015 as a diesel line and convert to electric later, so that it can open in time for the 2015 Pan Am Games.
But Horwath and the NDP are proposing speeding the electrification process up — at greater expense — and move quicker on converting GO Transit’s busy Lakeshore and Georgetown corridors to electric trains.
It’s a popular position in west Toronto, where the GO lines cut through several ridings.
Davenport, now vacant with the retirement of Grit Tony Ruprecht, is a seat the NDP have targeted.
Horwath said she was feeling pumped after Tuesday’s debate.
“I think we hit a home run last night,” she said.
“I think we showed the people that they do have a real choice on Oct. 6. They don’t have to choose the status quo that is represented by the other two parties.”
Not very good. A careful reading of the document you posted shows that the document is about air pollution at the Island airport and not about the Georgetown expansion.
Your page 8 reference is incorrect.
The recommendations you trumpet are not by the Medical Officer of Health, they are by Community Air, a community air who opposed the Island Airport; their original letter containing these points is actually attached to the end of the document. The two motions by council mentioned in these recommendations:
The October 1 and 2, 1998 endorsement by Council for an airport link supported the CONCEPT of one of 3 options and asked for feasibility studies to determine the best route and costs. The motion came from the THE URBAN ENVIRONMENT AND DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE, not the Board of Health. This report, as one can see from reading it, had the potential 2008 Toronto Olympics as a driving force. As this motion was one of support there is no decision on the route or the technology. Diesel vs. electric was not part of this motions scope of reference. (http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/minutes/council/appa/cc981001/ud10rpt.htm) The second motion was again not generated by the Board of Health but again was in reference to the Pan Am games and again supported the CONCEPT not the technology. Neither of these council motions endorsed a technical aspect, it referred to that the EA.
The Medical Officer Of Health's recommendations are on page 2 and have nothing to do with the airport link. So, in short, you misread the document. The Medical Officer of Healths concerns appeared during the EA process, especially when Metrolinx refused to include electrification as an option. His opinion from that point has been posted here already many times and is unchanged.
For 500th time, nobody is against a green and efficient system to the airport. People are against diesel and it's service limitations and lifetime cost.
I tend to agree with you Vic. I dont attend debates often because the fringe candidates often eat up a lot of time that could be spent hearing from those who actually might win. In the last municipal election some of the candidates were frankly kooky and it was good that they were mostly not included in the Rogers debate. I think it does the public a better service when only those that are top contenders are in the debate. I remember a meeting in the lower half of the ward a few elections ago and some of the Fringers were single issue candidates lacking any knowledge of other issues or even the ward beyond the street where they lived. There was one guy whose ideas were out of a science fiction novel.
Part of a democratic idea is that citizens should make efforts to inform themselves. Never in history has information been more available yet many dont get involved. Some blame the system, I tend to blame the voters.
We had the successful meet and greet at Boo Radley's for the municipal election where all candidates were invited and encouraged to meet people one on one. I thought it was pretty good. I note that one fringe candidate never talked with anybody and instead watched an entire ball game drinking at the bar! That's democracy. : )
Ontario's power consumption has been going down over the past few years. Electrification will create demand for power, just like everything else does. Expanded generation is seen as a province wide demand, not tied to a specific factory or location.
If there was a blackout dirty diesel trains would not run either, their signaling is electric.
Using electricity means that the source can be spread over many different generation locations. Diesel is stuck relying on oil and the issues of price and world market price that come with it. Both oil and electricity prices will go up but at least in the electricity market we have some element of control.
This website just lists the event, and I'm not sure that the organizers visit here. You should voice your concerns directly to them.
For what it's worth, I've found that any debates that I've attended where there were more than four or five candidates speaking ended up being a bit of a waste of time. The so-called "fringe" candidates often veer far off-topic (worse than "mainstream" candidates!) and seem to use those debates simply as a place to voice their own agenda, even when they know there's zero chance of coming close to winning.
If someone wants to organize more inclusive debates, that's fine, and probably good to have everyone together in once place at least once during a campaign. But I'd rather have the opportunity to hear the top contenders spend more time speaking/debating.
Just my personal opinion.
Though maybe in a future election campaign, there could be an all-inclusive debate, followed by a "by popular demand" debate with a more focused group.
I understand that the upcoming Davenport provincial election debate has been limited to the candidates from the Liberal Party, Progressive Conservative Party, the NDP, and the Green Party. It seems to me that these parties get a great deal of coverage in the media for their platforms and promises. We hardly hear anything of what the other parties might have to offer.
The Davenport Perth Neighbourhood Centre is publically funded. It is surely your job to be inclusive. Besides, by including other parties, even the "main stream" parties would be forced to consider new ideas and the debate becomes much more exciting.
A debate with all the parties represented would go some way to counteract the apathy that the electorate, quite justifiably, feels when given a choice from the narrow range of ideas and options offered by the three largest parties.
It violates the spirit of democracy to exclude parties which might attract support if they were heard. This exclusion in effect puts the Perth Davenport Neighbourhood Centre , in a partisan position. I would hope that my tax dollars were going to promote and extend democracy rather than to limit it.
I would be most grateful for a considered response to the questions raised here.
This site makes connections between Hudak and Harris. Some timely reminders.
http://www.thebestontarioelectionwebsite.ca/videos
My notes were pertaining to Dale GoldHawk Debat and not the DPNC debate.JF
To be very brief since I'm on a smart phone and not my computer,
Diesel is a big waste, and electric more cost effective (not cheaper) when you factor in the other circumstances,
But GO themselves plan this line to serve downtown biz commuters going to PIA
Well first of all they are about 15 yrs late or more, since the target audience they plan has rapidly adopted the island airport for biz commuting, and that is today, forget about in another 4yrs, those commuters are alredy getting good service and more carries will be flying from the island within the next 12-24mths, so the client they hope for will not have any reason to go to PIA which now goes back to who will be using this thing kicking all this diesel particles into the air running empty???
Secondly, by making it electric it can make local stops serving the communities it run through which now serves a dual purpose, it could stop in liberty village, west queen west, roncy, Bloor, Dupont, junction etc, now they can appeal to two audiences and not just the targeted audience, it almost serves as a more immediate downtown relief line that might never get built, so why find the money twice for duplication of service when by making this line electric once can serve a dual purpose
Not to mention the health benefits, noise, etc etc
To be very brief since I'm on a smart phone and not my computer,
Diesel is a big waste, and electric more cost effective (not cheaper) when you factor in the other circumstances,
But GO themselves plan this line to serve downtown biz commuters going to PIA
Well first of all they are about 15 yrs late or more, since the target audience they plan has rapidly adopted the island airport for biz commuting, and that is today, forget about in another 4yrs, those commuters are alredy getting good service and more carries will be flying from the island within the next 12-24mths, so the client they hope for will not have any reason to go to PIA which now goes back to who will be using this thing kicking all this diesel particles into the air running empty???
Secondly, by making it electric it can make local stops serving the communities it run through which now serves a dual purpose, it could stop in liberty village, west queen west, roncy, Bloor, Dupont, junction etc, now they can appeal to two audiences and not just the targeted audience, it almost serves as a more immediate downtown relief line that might never get built, so why find the money twice for duplication of service when by making this line electric once can serve a dual purpose
Not to mention the health benefits, noise, etc etc
Kirk the PC guy???
I was there, for the majority of debate was only the three, Christine, Jonah & Frank
And I'd say Christine was the only major disappointment, when asked about if she completed the survey she said we can come to speak with her AFTER the election....? What's the point, maybe she didn't know what the survey was or didn't care that voters wanted her survey opinion BEFORE the election so can decide to vote for her, that's normally how these things work, you think???
Maybe the four candidates you are talking about was at another debate not the one last night at DPNC
Kirk was a no show, go figure
Hey Omar and everybody else....
A reminder that we did post a link to all the candidates on this site at the top of the page:
https://www.junctiontriangle.ca/node/979#comment-4841
The plan is not secret, it has been publicly available in Metrolinx's documents for years. The 400 number is the APL plus Georgetown expanded service. That 400 number also does not include the addition of 2 way all day service on the sister branch which is the Barrie line so the actual number is much higher. The Barrie line vanished from Metrolinx's vocabulary after they floated the idea of closing off Wallace Avenue but has since been put back into their "The Big Move" maps. The number of trains will of course depend on demand but these are MX's numbers so we assume that some amount of research has gone into them. This information is available at the MX website. If you wish to argue these numbers you will have to take it up with MX.
Omar, hi my name is Jack Fava. I also live in Davenport riding on Symington Avenue.
The decision to have only the mainstream parties was decide by a debate committee which I was part of, only moving forward to what the residents wanted to hear. I remember one election and Davenport Perth organizing other debates and inviting couple from other parties and they just hijacked the debate, some were really out there with their ideas and stuff. The residents/audience didn't like it and said no more, next time only mainstream parties. I also organized a debate inviting other then the mainstream and they also didn't like it. If it's such a need to have a debate with all the candidates, how come no one has organized a debate inviting all candidates???
Regarding the list of demands, nothing new. They are been spoken about from the other candidates and people like me, nothing new. This is a very deverse riding, not only by the parties they support, but demands as well. You might be taken back, but there might be some residents who might even disagree with some of your demands that you have listed.. JF
Given the debt the province has, a 7% discount rate seems more appropriate. That would give a present value to all future savings of around $150 million. So we would be paying over $10 cash for every dollar that would ever be saved.
What gets me is the people who say there will be 400 trains a day running. "Hi, I'm Jonah, and I expect you to believe there is a secret plot to run a train to the airport every 3 1/2 minutes in the dead of the night when the subway isn't even running."
Expectations for voter intelligence are low.
Listed below are demands from the election platform of the Communist Party of Canada. Would you say that you - and hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions - agree with most of the following demands? Nothing fringy about them - except perhaps to the mainstream parties and the mass media who don't want to touch many of these issues.
(By the way, just last week the Republican Party in the US held one of its nomination meetings. Guess how many people were on the stage? Nine! I would have thought Perth-Davenport can do the same).
*Good Jobs for All!
*Repeal the HST! Sharply increase taxes on banks and corporations.
*One universal, quality, public, secular school system.
*$7/day childcare; eliminate post-secondary tuition fees
*Quality public health care system; no public/private hospitals.
*Full equality for women, racial minorities, gays and lesbians.
*Affordable housing, rents, transit.
*End police violence; strict civilian control over police.
*Significant increase in minimum wage, pensions, social assistance, disability and EI payments.
*Just settlement of Aboriginal land claims.
*Protect the Environment; Nationalize natural resources, energy.
*Enact anti-scab laws; no union busting, workers’ right to strike. Enforce health and safety laws.
*No to cutbacks, or privatization, of municipal services.
*Reduce Property Tax by 75%; upload education, health, housing, welfare and public transit costs.
*Democratic electoral reform; proportional representation; Permanent residents to have vote in local elections.
*No to war; convert military to civilian spending. Canada out of Afghanistan and Libya now!
CityNews has an article and video profile of Davenport, including interviews with Martins, Schein, and Russell, plus a few residents etc. A bit of local political history, quick gloss-over of the rail issues (with footage from the Wallace Bridge), etc......
http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/topic/cityvote_ontario_2011/artic...
Metrolinx's own studies support much of what I have said and people can look at the links and decide as most have.To be honest I dont really understand half of what you are talking about and now you seem to be into insulting the intelligence of and basking in some kind of perceived intellectual superiority over those who post here and I am not interested in that.
And his study, done with others, mirrors much of Metrolinx's own electrification study. So your point is?
Yes, All four main candidates were present, they debated for about 50 mins and then the last 10 mins was given to Allix Thompson-Party for Human Rights. For me I didn't see any big winners tonight, disappointed, plus Dale doesn't make it easy on the candidates. I was really surprised and disappointed with Jonah and Frank who I felt should of been the most versed, specially with Q&A, as they have more political experience. I am not sure if it me only, but Jonah looked very uncomfortable tonight. With Cristina I was bothered by her reading her script, instead of looking at the audience and making contact with the voters, she kepted reading her notes.
If I were to score the debate on the candidate over all and this is my opinion- Cristina did the best, tied in 2nd was Frank & Jonah. Kirk I won't go there there is not much to say. JF
Greg Gormick, Greg Gormick, why does that name ring a bell?
Didn't he write an article about some transit line in New Jersey?
http://www.masstransitmag.com/article/10221262/unique-rail
The equipment, the operating plan, the public-private partnership that built and operates the system and other aspects of the River LINE represent new and innovative approaches to rail transit service.
The first low-floor, articulated diesel multiple unit (DMU) light rail cars in the United States
NJ Transit has been outstanding in seeing the benefits and funding them.
He probably just got carried away quoting something and wrote a bunch of stuff he didn't really believe.
So, did anyone watch tonight's debate on Rogers TV? Which candidates participated? On Twitter it seems that only Frank, Jonah, and Cristina were there:
"RogersTVToronto Rogers TV Toronto
Tonight at 8pm on The Local Campaign we welcome Candidates from Davenport @CMartins4MPP and @jonahschein and Frank de Jong"
Any interesting highlights? Anything worth following up on at Thursday evening's debate at the DPNC?
You would have us believe the Medical Officer of Health would extensively quote something he disagreed with and not mention anything about his disagreement.
I've got to watch some Groucho sometime - I love that quote.
Reading material is not the same as a reference. The issue is that you have failed to understand publicly available information and I guess you might feel motivated to obfuscate your reasoning. But that doesn't really change much.
Last year you were convinced that the cost of equipment would go through the roof. You went on at length and typically offered no specific references in an attempt to avoid accountability. I believe you misunderstood the bias of an industry spokesman. Of course when the contract for vehicles was signed that whole thing went unceremoniously out the window.
This time the question of who are you gonna believe doesn't matter. It's relatively straightforward to do the heavy lifting with your own lying eyes. If you don't have a financial calculator there are some web sites that will help you find the present value of an annuity. Using numbers from the electrification study highlights. It looks like the recommended plan would cost $1.7 billion, take 8 years to put into service and save 18 million per year. So using a discount rate of 5% calculating the value of an 18 million dollar annuity for 200 years I get a present value of $244 million dollars. So you are spending $1.7 billion and the present value of the savings are $244 million. That's not a good deal. It doesn't matter who you trust anybody can calculate this for themselves.
For what it's worth the clean train coalition is not a credible source.
Horwath on board with electric rail to Pearson
By Jonathan Jenkins ,Queen's Park Bureau SUN NEWS
First posted: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 10:30 AM EDT
TORONTO - The Union-Pearson air-rail link will run on electricity if Andrea Horwath becomes premier, the NDP leader told an appreciative west-end crowd at a post-debate breakfast Wednesday.
“There’s a Liberal plan to send diesel trains through your backyard here in Davenport,” Horwath said.
“It’s a good example of what happens when a government gets out of touch: They take everyday people like yourselves for granted.”
The government has said it will launch the new service from Union Station to the Pearson airport in 2015 as a diesel line and convert to electric later, so that it can open in time for the 2015 Pan Am Games.
But Horwath and the NDP are proposing speeding the electrification process up — at greater expense — and move quicker on converting GO Transit’s busy Lakeshore and Georgetown corridors to electric trains.
It’s a popular position in west Toronto, where the GO lines cut through several ridings.
Davenport, now vacant with the retirement of Grit Tony Ruprecht, is a seat the NDP have targeted.
Horwath said she was feeling pumped after Tuesday’s debate.
“I think we hit a home run last night,” she said.
“I think we showed the people that they do have a real choice on Oct. 6. They don’t have to choose the status quo that is represented by the other two parties.”
Original posting
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/09/28/horwath-on-board-with-electric-rail...
Not very good. A careful reading of the document you posted shows that the document is about air pollution at the Island airport and not about the Georgetown expansion.
Your page 8 reference is incorrect.
The recommendations you trumpet are not by the Medical Officer of Health, they are by Community Air, a community air who opposed the Island Airport; their original letter containing these points is actually attached to the end of the document. The two motions by council mentioned in these recommendations:
The October 1 and 2, 1998 endorsement by Council for an airport link supported the CONCEPT of one of 3 options and asked for feasibility studies to determine the best route and costs. The motion came from the THE URBAN ENVIRONMENT AND DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE, not the Board of Health. This report, as one can see from reading it, had the potential 2008 Toronto Olympics as a driving force. As this motion was one of support there is no decision on the route or the technology. Diesel vs. electric was not part of this motions scope of reference. (http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/minutes/council/appa/cc981001/ud10rpt.htm) The second motion was again not generated by the Board of Health but again was in reference to the Pan Am games and again supported the CONCEPT not the technology. Neither of these council motions endorsed a technical aspect, it referred to that the EA.
The Medical Officer Of Health's recommendations are on page 2 and have nothing to do with the airport link. So, in short, you misread the document. The Medical Officer of Healths concerns appeared during the EA process, especially when Metrolinx refused to include electrification as an option. His opinion from that point has been posted here already many times and is unchanged.
For 500th time, nobody is against a green and efficient system to the airport. People are against diesel and it's service limitations and lifetime cost.
I tend to agree with you Vic. I dont attend debates often because the fringe candidates often eat up a lot of time that could be spent hearing from those who actually might win. In the last municipal election some of the candidates were frankly kooky and it was good that they were mostly not included in the Rogers debate. I think it does the public a better service when only those that are top contenders are in the debate. I remember a meeting in the lower half of the ward a few elections ago and some of the Fringers were single issue candidates lacking any knowledge of other issues or even the ward beyond the street where they lived. There was one guy whose ideas were out of a science fiction novel.
Part of a democratic idea is that citizens should make efforts to inform themselves. Never in history has information been more available yet many dont get involved. Some blame the system, I tend to blame the voters.
We had the successful meet and greet at Boo Radley's for the municipal election where all candidates were invited and encouraged to meet people one on one. I thought it was pretty good. I note that one fringe candidate never talked with anybody and instead watched an entire ball game drinking at the bar! That's democracy. : )
Ontario's power consumption has been going down over the past few years. Electrification will create demand for power, just like everything else does. Expanded generation is seen as a province wide demand, not tied to a specific factory or location.
If there was a blackout dirty diesel trains would not run either, their signaling is electric.
Using electricity means that the source can be spread over many different generation locations. Diesel is stuck relying on oil and the issues of price and world market price that come with it. Both oil and electricity prices will go up but at least in the electricity market we have some element of control.
This is discussed in both reports I posted.
Sara,
This website just lists the event, and I'm not sure that the organizers visit here. You should voice your concerns directly to them.
For what it's worth, I've found that any debates that I've attended where there were more than four or five candidates speaking ended up being a bit of a waste of time. The so-called "fringe" candidates often veer far off-topic (worse than "mainstream" candidates!) and seem to use those debates simply as a place to voice their own agenda, even when they know there's zero chance of coming close to winning.
If someone wants to organize more inclusive debates, that's fine, and probably good to have everyone together in once place at least once during a campaign. But I'd rather have the opportunity to hear the top contenders spend more time speaking/debating.
Just my personal opinion.
Though maybe in a future election campaign, there could be an all-inclusive debate, followed by a "by popular demand" debate with a more focused group.
I understand that the upcoming Davenport provincial election debate has been limited to the candidates from the Liberal Party, Progressive Conservative Party, the NDP, and the Green Party. It seems to me that these parties get a great deal of coverage in the media for their platforms and promises. We hardly hear anything of what the other parties might have to offer.
The Davenport Perth Neighbourhood Centre is publically funded. It is surely your job to be inclusive. Besides, by including other parties, even the "main stream" parties would be forced to consider new ideas and the debate becomes much more exciting.
A debate with all the parties represented would go some way to counteract the apathy that the electorate, quite justifiably, feels when given a choice from the narrow range of ideas and options offered by the three largest parties.
It violates the spirit of democracy to exclude parties which might attract support if they were heard. This exclusion in effect puts the Perth Davenport Neighbourhood Centre , in a partisan position. I would hope that my tax dollars were going to promote and extend democracy rather than to limit it.
I would be most grateful for a considered response to the questions raised here.
Thank you,
Sara Barker
I have a question that I have never heard answered. Where is the electricity coming from? What happens if there is a black out?