unfortunately, CTV is reporting the accident involved a cycling fatility. that is very sad news, and I would not want to politicize this, but it appears to have happened at the exit of the (very safe) Rail Trail onto the (very unsafe) Dundas/Sterling intersection... while it has not been reported she was exiting/entering the Rail Trail, I do so every day and am very conscious of the danger of going from one to the other!
Very sad news, and thoughts and prayers for the families involved.
This article presented a somewhat negative view of where things are at without providing much specifics. Not a well researched story and it listed the wrong study.
From a political point of view there has never been more support for Railpath 2 than now. Even Rob Ford supports it and moved it to his priorities list on his new bike plan.Obviously Perks and Bailao are 100% on board as is pretty much everybody else.
Metrolinx has met with Friends of Railpath and with the Councillors and with the Bike Staff on many occasions. There is a feasibility study specific to Railpath starting which will be done next year and that will inform what we would like Railpath to be. Metrolinx also has some homework to do in terms of grade drawings etc. Metrolinx has said they will help where they can and so far they have.Will there be issues? Yes, any project like this will have things that need to be overcome but at this point there is more positive than negative and if some issues can be resolved next year then Railpath 2 could start in 2015.
I am just saying that there is a lot of stuff going on quietly and there is a lot of support for it. Lets accurately identify what the issues and needs are before we start calling people out or getting worried. I should add that one fact has been determined some time ago, and that is that there is no way for Railpath to get to downtown or to Strachan within the rail corridor. Thats a Fact. But so too is that the Fort York Bridge looks to be on again and so does a bridge further west so one opportunity closes and 2 open up.
I copied a couple of worrying phrases below
from article: “He (Perks) says that the agency (Metrolinx) is “redoing bridges and when asked to accommodate extra width, gave a flat no.” Perks believes money played a role in their decision.”
from article: “Metrolinx, the Ontario government’s transportation agency, concurs. “GO Transit will accommodate the bike path where possible; however, there are a few pinch points where there is simply not enough room to accommodate the bike path within the rail corridor,” spokesperson Malon Edwards tells us in an email.”
Second sandwich visit: meat ball super, chicken adequate and sausage HUGE disappointment. The sausage was NOT home made or even close.
The sausage was big on preservatives, not juicy at all and the bun INDEFENSIBLE !! The bun was a glorified hot dog bun. Not the great crusty ones like the other sandwiches get. They simply should cut the sausage and put in the regular bun. Could it get any drier ??? Sweet mother of God there was no sauce in the Italian sausage sandwich?? Hey owners heads-up why is the meatball sandwich soooo good and the sausage sandwich misses the mark big time.
I think Nonna has lost her game. Back to California sandwiches I go, so much for supporting locals.
The City has for years wanted to add local road NOT ARTERIAL ROAD capacity. In the 1970's they wanted to use what is now Railpath as a service road. Thankfully they did not. But they do want to run Edwin to Macauly to Wallace and then continue Elsie south past Ernest to Randolf.As all development in the area in the future will be a higher density there will be a need for increased capacity just for local traffic. (Also the south of Bloor there is a plan to connect Ruttan to Sterling some day.)
No new roads in our immediate area could be arterial; there is no room and nobody would want it. There is no room or bridges for Edwin (Elsie actually) to go further south.
Second, there will have to be a series of restrictions in a few places so that local roads dont become arterial shortcuts. A great example is Silverthorn Avenue which is one way south to stop the obvious temptation to flood a community and park area with traffic looking for a shortcut to Old Weston Road avoiding the St. Clair intersection. It is probably a pain for some local drivers but when I was on it the other day it was quiet and safe for kids.
Falus refers to Tom Falus who has been the largest developer in our area for years and is well known. You can read more about him elsewhere on this site. The new developer on Wallace has a good reputation and is making an effort to make the Wallace development augment the community. His name is Fred Guth and I think he will work closely WITH the city to make the site, the roads, Railpth access, as good as possible.
If Edwin connects to Wallace and Ernest heads to Randolph then why stop there? Why would they not give Edwin an artery status from Dundas to Bloor? And then you want to argue access? The access has been granted and to fight to have a no left turn on Edwin will be much more difficult due to the "greater good". I'm for the greater good but isn't it nice to have the quiet and quaint streets as they are? Something to stop in to rather than pass by. I assume by downtown moving a "mile" wider you mean we are growing exponentially east and west and there's no stopping it, right? That's fine and yes, I'm very much aware of it. What I'm saying is the pass through neighbourhoods are never treated as a destination.
But - all in all, i guess I'm not quite sure what you're saying. DO you mean Phallus? Maybe I don't understand the word. Capacity to have access? Capacity - could you define what you mean? And if arterial restrictions apply - let's make sure they are in place ahead of time and not after.
CRAIG WROTE: "Anyone who says the bike lanes have not increased traffic is not being honest"
Hey Craig thanks for you input and your honesty. I agree with you. It's like anything else in life when there is any issue, some people don't acknowledge because by doing so you are then admiting their is a problem. People in this community are very divided. It was never like that when I was growing up in the JT. You see a problem and you deal with it. Lot of it has to do with the future ideas of the JT, about how they envisioned JT/ward18 would and should look like. Some division is caused by it seems to me the party you support, people also belong to little groups within the community and have an agenda.
Lastly, their are many in this community who have never posted on this site and are concern with the issues of this community and already started to take action by letter wrtting to all 3 levels of government and agencies. To me it's not important what other believe or me trying to convince people to see or believe what you believe or see, but it's important what you see and believe. JF
Exactly. Do we want empty stores or a vibrant street life? Despite our Mayor, the inertia is for streetlife. Our hood is moving in the right direction and in the future I see complete streets with jobs, local business, and a caring tight knot community. The opposite of 4 lane freeways through any community.
It is in the City's long term plan and will happen. Elsie will some time head south to Ernest. And you are creating capacity. Don't fight the street, argue about access. Curtail rush hour shortcuts like they do say at Lawrence and Bathurst and things might not be too bad. Be aware that "downtown" is moving a mile wider. Ernest will head south to Randolph. This capacity, if arterial restrictions apply, might actually quiet things down in our lifetime.
A park there. Or Ruskin. The new developer on Wallace is no Falus. : )
Absolutely. The Davenport project and Bike Pirates are 100% in sync on this. If you have an old bike or a kids bike bring it down and let another ride. Bike pirates teach you how, and West Bike teaches you why. Next year, more kids on Railpath than ever. Thanks to all our partners and sponsors.
A nice idea would to not connect Macaulay to the Edwin extension all the way to Wallace. IMO it'd be cool to see a little park right there and moves traffic in one direction as to protect the kids playing in the park. Just an idea.
Everyone's right - all the issues are coming together to confound the traffic issue all the more. Anyone who says the bike lanes have not increased traffic is not being honest - and this is coming from a guy who has been a lifelong cyclist, and an advocate of cyclist rights. I also have kids, and I live on Edwin south of Dupont. I KNOW the traffic difference on Dupont, and I definitely know the difference on Edwin: people get frustrated going east on Dupont coming up the hill from the Annette / Dundas / Dupont debacle, and hit their first right off the Dupont mess and speed down Edwin. With the coming development at the bottom of Edwin in the old Glidden Paint property, this will quickly escalate into a traffic nightmare. We need Edwin south of Dupont to be One Way heading north, and likely with speed bumps. Traffic calming, because traffic is likely not going away.
I don't want to see the bike lanes gone - I support them. But we clearly have to be more creative. Some people will think about hopping on their bikes, but many simply won't - and that's fine too. All of that takes time and attitudes changing.
Anyone ever hear about or check out the Toronto based bicycle plan called Velo-City? It was developed here well over 10 years ago, I believe - but our car-centric culture quickly saw an end to that idea. Still, there has been great interest in more progressive cities. Essentiall, they are elevated bike lanes in tubes that straddle the middle of major arteries with a very small footprint. There is some greater cost, of course, but it is nowhere near the cost of continuing to support the requirements of car culture. Check it out - including the artist renderings found here: http://www.velo-city.ca/MainFrameset.html
I think a pilot project should be done with something like this, somewhere in the city - and why not with Dupont - perhaps it could start on the west end at that usless island of greenery caught in the middle of Dundas and the Dupont underpass - go over the railpath, along Dupont and over the next rail line, and out again at either Lansdowne or over to Dufferin. What say you all - does it have to be a pipe dream?
You can donate it to the Bike Pirates this Saturday from noon to 3 pm at Wallace Bridge and they will refurbish and sell it at a fair price to somebody who will love it. Dont let old bikes rust away when they still have lots of life left in them.
Well put. If pollution is the issue then remember that moving cars pollute as well and surrendering every bit of space to them just increases traffic. The only thing that has been shown to reduce traffic is to reduce capacity and make public transit or other options more desirable. Bike lanes, wider sidewalks, traffic calming, and public transit fight pollution. Local economies and density also tend to keep people close to home so they dont drive to go buy one item. So if you want to fight air pollution then stop driving as much. And also accept the fact that if you live in a growing city, there will be traffic congestion just like every other city in the world and by the way our congestion is small compared to bigger cities.
I own a car and I support tolls. They work. They work in the UK and they have worked for decades south in the "land of the free". And they would work here. Cars are incredibly subsidized as it is so tolls would raise funds and help reduce wasteful trips. 2 elections ago the loudmouth DJ John Oakley said that tolls were a communist idea. Actually they are a free market idea that concentrates costs on the actual users; a perfect idea.
I also support raising taxes to get public transit happening. As Dupont develops some day we will need a real bus route there instead of the iffy service we have now.
I've lived here for some time as well and traffic was bad on Dupont (namely because of the bottleneck at Dundas/Annette/Dupont).
If cars weren't using it to get out of the city to inner suburbs and the store fronts were more vibrant it would change the whole walking/ driving/cycling experience.
I own a car, have all my adult life, and yet I know it's too many cars that are causing the problem, not enough car pooling and the mentality that roads are for cars that has poisoned peoples minds.
You make Dupont two lanes again, by removing the bike lanes, the drivers will just fill in the void and it will be exactly the same holdup congestion as today except just with more cars passing through, ie
MORE POLLUTION, if pollution is your concern lobby govt for those streets mentioned around JT to be local car traffic only or better yet my hope one day we get congestion charges (electronic tariffs), as you enter the city during peak hours, greater Vancouver has approved it and pushing it on province, every other city that has done it see the benefit of less vehicular traffic.
So if pollution was the enemy the car is the agent, not bikes or bike lanes. reduce the cars, we get more streets where people walk and less pollutants we have to breath
Warren, Thanks for sharing the notes from the meeting.
I live on Symington and haven't really notice any more cars then the usual. I do however notice more trucks(big&small) the ones that bring the metal to the depot on ernest ave, i guess with the increase of commodity in metal price things are good . I did ask the police to do a blitz on unsafe trucks that come to sell the metal. I will also follow through with a call to the Provincial Goverrnment to see if we can give Solways and Sons a hard time with unsafe trucks, which their are many, since the City really can't do anthing.
Regarding the bike lanes you are going to get opposition from people, regardless what side people are on with bike lanes. Cyclist are going to get blamed. JF
The "Complete Streets" concept is an important one for people to understand. I also thing the subway drew attention away from Dupont (or Royce). But the bike lane also increases the buffer making the sidewalks feel safer and more pleasant. That should be good for local small business. The Junction Triangle would benefit greatly from a more vibrant Dupont.
unfortunately, CTV is reporting the accident involved a cycling fatility. that is very sad news, and I would not want to politicize this, but it appears to have happened at the exit of the (very safe) Rail Trail onto the (very unsafe) Dundas/Sterling intersection... while it has not been reported she was exiting/entering the Rail Trail, I do so every day and am very conscious of the danger of going from one to the other!
Very sad news, and thoughts and prayers for the families involved.
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20111107/cyclist-dead-dun...
This article presented a somewhat negative view of where things are at without providing much specifics. Not a well researched story and it listed the wrong study.
From a political point of view there has never been more support for Railpath 2 than now. Even Rob Ford supports it and moved it to his priorities list on his new bike plan.Obviously Perks and Bailao are 100% on board as is pretty much everybody else.
Metrolinx has met with Friends of Railpath and with the Councillors and with the Bike Staff on many occasions. There is a feasibility study specific to Railpath starting which will be done next year and that will inform what we would like Railpath to be. Metrolinx also has some homework to do in terms of grade drawings etc. Metrolinx has said they will help where they can and so far they have.Will there be issues? Yes, any project like this will have things that need to be overcome but at this point there is more positive than negative and if some issues can be resolved next year then Railpath 2 could start in 2015.
I am just saying that there is a lot of stuff going on quietly and there is a lot of support for it. Lets accurately identify what the issues and needs are before we start calling people out or getting worried. I should add that one fact has been determined some time ago, and that is that there is no way for Railpath to get to downtown or to Strachan within the rail corridor. Thats a Fact. But so too is that the Fort York Bridge looks to be on again and so does a bridge further west so one opportunity closes and 2 open up.
What’s Next for Railpath (Article in Torontoist about expansion south)
http://torontoist.com/2011/10/whats-next-for-the-railpath/
I copied a couple of worrying phrases below
from article: “He (Perks) says that the agency (Metrolinx) is “redoing bridges and when asked to accommodate extra width, gave a flat no.” Perks believes money played a role in their decision.”
from article: “Metrolinx, the Ontario government’s transportation agency, concurs. “GO Transit will accommodate the bike path where possible; however, there are a few pinch points where there is simply not enough room to accommodate the bike path within the rail corridor,” spokesperson Malon Edwards tells us in an email.”
(To clarify - GO & Metrolinx are the same agency)
http://www.metrolinx.com/en/aboutus/metrolinxoverview/metrolinx_overview...
Second sandwich visit: meat ball super, chicken adequate and sausage HUGE disappointment. The sausage was NOT home made or even close.
The sausage was big on preservatives, not juicy at all and the bun INDEFENSIBLE !! The bun was a glorified hot dog bun. Not the great crusty ones like the other sandwiches get. They simply should cut the sausage and put in the regular bun. Could it get any drier ??? Sweet mother of God there was no sauce in the Italian sausage sandwich?? Hey owners heads-up why is the meatball sandwich soooo good and the sausage sandwich misses the mark big time.
I think Nonna has lost her game. Back to California sandwiches I go, so much for supporting locals.
I was there and took notes. Hope to post soon, but I've just been swamped.
-Vic
I was unable to attend this meeting. Can anyone tell me how it went?
Hi Junction Triangle!!
I just wanted to put it out there that we are opening for brunch the weekend of November 12th!
Our hours will be 9-4 Saturday & Sunday.
We are also liquor licensed. Hair of the dog?!!
We are very excited!!!
We also welcome take away as we did in the past, so don't be shy to come up to the counter!
See you all soon!
Cafe Neon
Let me try this again. Sorry for any confusion.
The City has for years wanted to add local road NOT ARTERIAL ROAD capacity. In the 1970's they wanted to use what is now Railpath as a service road. Thankfully they did not. But they do want to run Edwin to Macauly to Wallace and then continue Elsie south past Ernest to Randolf.As all development in the area in the future will be a higher density there will be a need for increased capacity just for local traffic. (Also the south of Bloor there is a plan to connect Ruttan to Sterling some day.)
No new roads in our immediate area could be arterial; there is no room and nobody would want it. There is no room or bridges for Edwin (Elsie actually) to go further south.
Second, there will have to be a series of restrictions in a few places so that local roads dont become arterial shortcuts. A great example is Silverthorn Avenue which is one way south to stop the obvious temptation to flood a community and park area with traffic looking for a shortcut to Old Weston Road avoiding the St. Clair intersection. It is probably a pain for some local drivers but when I was on it the other day it was quiet and safe for kids.
Falus refers to Tom Falus who has been the largest developer in our area for years and is well known. You can read more about him elsewhere on this site. The new developer on Wallace has a good reputation and is making an effort to make the Wallace development augment the community. His name is Fred Guth and I think he will work closely WITH the city to make the site, the roads, Railpth access, as good as possible.
If Edwin connects to Wallace and Ernest heads to Randolph then why stop there? Why would they not give Edwin an artery status from Dundas to Bloor? And then you want to argue access? The access has been granted and to fight to have a no left turn on Edwin will be much more difficult due to the "greater good". I'm for the greater good but isn't it nice to have the quiet and quaint streets as they are? Something to stop in to rather than pass by. I assume by downtown moving a "mile" wider you mean we are growing exponentially east and west and there's no stopping it, right? That's fine and yes, I'm very much aware of it. What I'm saying is the pass through neighbourhoods are never treated as a destination.
But - all in all, i guess I'm not quite sure what you're saying. DO you mean Phallus? Maybe I don't understand the word. Capacity to have access? Capacity - could you define what you mean? And if arterial restrictions apply - let's make sure they are in place ahead of time and not after.
CRAIG WROTE: "Anyone who says the bike lanes have not increased traffic is not being honest"
Hey Craig thanks for you input and your honesty. I agree with you. It's like anything else in life when there is any issue, some people don't acknowledge because by doing so you are then admiting their is a problem. People in this community are very divided. It was never like that when I was growing up in the JT. You see a problem and you deal with it. Lot of it has to do with the future ideas of the JT, about how they envisioned JT/ward18 would and should look like. Some division is caused by it seems to me the party you support, people also belong to little groups within the community and have an agenda.
Lastly, their are many in this community who have never posted on this site and are concern with the issues of this community and already started to take action by letter wrtting to all 3 levels of government and agencies. To me it's not important what other believe or me trying to convince people to see or believe what you believe or see, but it's important what you see and believe. JF
I have a bike to donate.....anybody else?
I think the word momentum was meant here - we have momentum toward creating greater streetlife in our community ;).
Exactly. Do we want empty stores or a vibrant street life? Despite our Mayor, the inertia is for streetlife. Our hood is moving in the right direction and in the future I see complete streets with jobs, local business, and a caring tight knot community. The opposite of 4 lane freeways through any community.
It is in the City's long term plan and will happen. Elsie will some time head south to Ernest. And you are creating capacity. Don't fight the street, argue about access. Curtail rush hour shortcuts like they do say at Lawrence and Bathurst and things might not be too bad. Be aware that "downtown" is moving a mile wider. Ernest will head south to Randolph. This capacity, if arterial restrictions apply, might actually quiet things down in our lifetime.
A park there. Or Ruskin. The new developer on Wallace is no Falus. : )
Absolutely. The Davenport project and Bike Pirates are 100% in sync on this. If you have an old bike or a kids bike bring it down and let another ride. Bike pirates teach you how, and West Bike teaches you why. Next year, more kids on Railpath than ever. Thanks to all our partners and sponsors.
A nice idea would to not connect Macaulay to the Edwin extension all the way to Wallace. IMO it'd be cool to see a little park right there and moves traffic in one direction as to protect the kids playing in the park. Just an idea.
Everyone's right - all the issues are coming together to confound the traffic issue all the more. Anyone who says the bike lanes have not increased traffic is not being honest - and this is coming from a guy who has been a lifelong cyclist, and an advocate of cyclist rights. I also have kids, and I live on Edwin south of Dupont. I KNOW the traffic difference on Dupont, and I definitely know the difference on Edwin: people get frustrated going east on Dupont coming up the hill from the Annette / Dundas / Dupont debacle, and hit their first right off the Dupont mess and speed down Edwin. With the coming development at the bottom of Edwin in the old Glidden Paint property, this will quickly escalate into a traffic nightmare. We need Edwin south of Dupont to be One Way heading north, and likely with speed bumps. Traffic calming, because traffic is likely not going away.
I don't want to see the bike lanes gone - I support them. But we clearly have to be more creative. Some people will think about hopping on their bikes, but many simply won't - and that's fine too. All of that takes time and attitudes changing.
Anyone ever hear about or check out the Toronto based bicycle plan called Velo-City? It was developed here well over 10 years ago, I believe - but our car-centric culture quickly saw an end to that idea. Still, there has been great interest in more progressive cities. Essentiall, they are elevated bike lanes in tubes that straddle the middle of major arteries with a very small footprint. There is some greater cost, of course, but it is nowhere near the cost of continuing to support the requirements of car culture. Check it out - including the artist renderings found here: http://www.velo-city.ca/MainFrameset.html
I think a pilot project should be done with something like this, somewhere in the city - and why not with Dupont - perhaps it could start on the west end at that usless island of greenery caught in the middle of Dundas and the Dupont underpass - go over the railpath, along Dupont and over the next rail line, and out again at either Lansdowne or over to Dufferin. What say you all - does it have to be a pipe dream?
I believe so. They are also partnered with the Davenport West Bike Project to provide bikes to kids:
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002267415323
...and the Davenport West Bike Project will be at this event too. :)
-Vic
Do the Bike Pirates accept kids bikes too?
You can donate it to the Bike Pirates this Saturday from noon to 3 pm at Wallace Bridge and they will refurbish and sell it at a fair price to somebody who will love it. Dont let old bikes rust away when they still have lots of life left in them.
Well put. If pollution is the issue then remember that moving cars pollute as well and surrendering every bit of space to them just increases traffic. The only thing that has been shown to reduce traffic is to reduce capacity and make public transit or other options more desirable. Bike lanes, wider sidewalks, traffic calming, and public transit fight pollution. Local economies and density also tend to keep people close to home so they dont drive to go buy one item. So if you want to fight air pollution then stop driving as much. And also accept the fact that if you live in a growing city, there will be traffic congestion just like every other city in the world and by the way our congestion is small compared to bigger cities.
I own a car and I support tolls. They work. They work in the UK and they have worked for decades south in the "land of the free". And they would work here. Cars are incredibly subsidized as it is so tolls would raise funds and help reduce wasteful trips. 2 elections ago the loudmouth DJ John Oakley said that tolls were a communist idea. Actually they are a free market idea that concentrates costs on the actual users; a perfect idea.
I also support raising taxes to get public transit happening. As Dupont develops some day we will need a real bus route there instead of the iffy service we have now.
Bike lanes aren't the problem, cars are.
I've lived here for some time as well and traffic was bad on Dupont (namely because of the bottleneck at Dundas/Annette/Dupont).
If cars weren't using it to get out of the city to inner suburbs and the store fronts were more vibrant it would change the whole walking/ driving/cycling experience.
I own a car, have all my adult life, and yet I know it's too many cars that are causing the problem, not enough car pooling and the mentality that roads are for cars that has poisoned peoples minds.
You make Dupont two lanes again, by removing the bike lanes, the drivers will just fill in the void and it will be exactly the same holdup congestion as today except just with more cars passing through, ie
MORE POLLUTION, if pollution is your concern lobby govt for those streets mentioned around JT to be local car traffic only or better yet my hope one day we get congestion charges (electronic tariffs), as you enter the city during peak hours, greater Vancouver has approved it and pushing it on province, every other city that has done it see the benefit of less vehicular traffic.
So if pollution was the enemy the car is the agent, not bikes or bike lanes. reduce the cars, we get more streets where people walk and less pollutants we have to breath
Warren do you think Bike Lanes are the new raccoons? : )
Warren, Thanks for sharing the notes from the meeting.
I live on Symington and haven't really notice any more cars then the usual. I do however notice more trucks(big&small) the ones that bring the metal to the depot on ernest ave, i guess with the increase of commodity in metal price things are good . I did ask the police to do a blitz on unsafe trucks that come to sell the metal. I will also follow through with a call to the Provincial Goverrnment to see if we can give Solways and Sons a hard time with unsafe trucks, which their are many, since the City really can't do anthing.
Regarding the bike lanes you are going to get opposition from people, regardless what side people are on with bike lanes. Cyclist are going to get blamed. JF
The "Complete Streets" concept is an important one for people to understand. I also thing the subway drew attention away from Dupont (or Royce). But the bike lane also increases the buffer making the sidewalks feel safer and more pleasant. That should be good for local small business. The Junction Triangle would benefit greatly from a more vibrant Dupont.