2011 Ontario Provincial Election

Please use this forum for discussing local issues related to the October 6 2011 Ontario Provincial Election.

Keep in mind that this website is dedicated to the Junction Triangle neighbourhood. Let's keep the discussions here focused on local issues and our Davenport candidates.

A few links to start:

These are the names posted on the official Elections Ontario list. Last updated September 28, 2011.


NOTE: Comments are closed on this forum. Followup comments on the election results are posted here.

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Election: Final comments, predictions, etc.?

Voting starts less than 24 hours from now.

Anyone have any final comments to help sway our votes? :) I never vote in advanced polls and consider myself undecided right until the end. I would hate to vote early and then find out that my vote went to the wrong person (though sometimes this happens even when I wait!)

Anyone want to throw out any predictions? Here's my guess, though it doesn't necessarily reflect what I want:

Jonah Schein (NDP): 47%
Cristina Martins (LIB): 35%
Kirk Russell (PC): 9%
Frank de Jong (GRN): 8%
Other: 1%

I'm not going to guess actual seats here. The polling this time around has been pretty incredible, with pretty huge numbers of people polled recently. This suggests accuracy, but I'm not sure if that can be trusted still. I mean, look at what happened with our municipal election, where polls didn't predict Rob Ford's strength.
So, my guess is: Liberal minority


I think Christina Martins has been behind the eight-ball from the start. Ruprecht's last minute decision to bow out didn't leave her much time to organize. (Ruprecht clearly pulled out because he saw the writing on the wall. He would have for sure lost had he run. Also party brass were no doubt giving him a nudge. I don't buy explanation that fellow MPP Bruce Crozier's death made him realize there was more to life.)
I understand he hasn't been much of a help to Martins. In fact, his supporters are helping Jagg.

Clean Train Coalition

The CTC has just updated and revised their website for the election here: http://www.cleantrain.ca/

Interesting website

This site makes connections between Hudak and Harris. Some timely reminders.

CityNews profile of Davenport

CityNews has an article and video profile of Davenport, including interviews with Martins, Schein, and Russell, plus a few residents etc. A bit of local political history, quick gloss-over of the rail issues (with footage from the Wallace Bridge), etc......


Davenport debate on Rogers?

So, did anyone watch tonight's debate on Rogers TV? Which candidates participated? On Twitter it seems that only Frank, Jonah, and Cristina were there:

"RogersTVToronto Rogers TV Toronto
Tonight at 8pm on The Local Campaign we welcome Candidates from Davenport @CMartins4MPP and @jonahschein and Frank de Jong"

Any interesting highlights? Anything worth following up on at Thursday evening's debate at the DPNC?

NO big winners tonight

Yes, All four main candidates were present, they debated for about 50 mins and then the last 10 mins was given to Allix Thompson-Party for Human Rights. For me I didn't see any big winners tonight, disappointed, plus Dale doesn't make it easy on the candidates. I was really surprised and disappointed with Jonah and Frank who I felt should of been the most versed, specially with Q&A, as they have more political experience. I am not sure if it me only, but Jonah looked very uncomfortable tonight. With Cristina I was bothered by her reading her script, instead of looking at the audience and making contact with the voters, she kepted reading her notes.

If I were to score the debate on the candidate over all and this is my opinion- Cristina did the best, tied in 2nd was Frank & Jonah. Kirk I won't go there there is not much to say. JF

Kirk Russell no show!!!

Kirk the PC guy???

I was there, for the majority of debate was only the three, Christine, Jonah & Frank

And I'd say Christine was the only major disappointment, when asked about if she completed the survey she said we can come to speak with her AFTER the election....? What's the point, maybe she didn't know what the survey was or didn't care that voters wanted her survey opinion BEFORE the election so can decide to vote for her, that's normally how these things work, you think???

Maybe the four candidates you are talking about was at another debate not the one last night at DPNC

Kirk was a no show, go figure

Referring to Debate on Dale GoldHawk

My notes were pertaining to Dale GoldHawk Debat and not the DPNC debate.JF

NDP Leader Wants Electric

Horwath on board with electric rail to Pearson

By Jonathan Jenkins ,Queen's Park Bureau SUN NEWS

First posted: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 10:30 AM EDT

TORONTO - The Union-Pearson air-rail link will run on electricity if Andrea Horwath becomes premier, the NDP leader told an appreciative west-end crowd at a post-debate breakfast Wednesday.

“There’s a Liberal plan to send diesel trains through your backyard here in Davenport,” Horwath said.

“It’s a good example of what happens when a government gets out of touch: They take everyday people like yourselves for granted.”

The government has said it will launch the new service from Union Station to the Pearson airport in 2015 as a diesel line and convert to electric later, so that it can open in time for the 2015 Pan Am Games.

But Horwath and the NDP are proposing speeding the electrification process up — at greater expense — and move quicker on converting GO Transit’s busy Lakeshore and Georgetown corridors to electric trains.

It’s a popular position in west Toronto, where the GO lines cut through several ridings.

Davenport, now vacant with the retirement of Grit Tony Ruprecht, is a seat the NDP have targeted.

Horwath said she was feeling pumped after Tuesday’s debate.

“I think we hit a home run last night,” she said.

“I think we showed the people that they do have a real choice on Oct. 6. They don’t have to choose the status quo that is represented by the other two parties.”

Original posting

Notes from Davenport Education debate

Adam Gorley has posted his notes from last week's education debate on his Toronto Star blog:

Toronto Star Polling Results for Davenport

The Toronto Star has published a map today showing the results of their major election poll with riding by riding results.
The results for Davenport show Jonah Schein with a substantial lead:

Leading Party: NDP
Leading by 16.2%
Trailing Party: Liberal

Respondant Summary (% of poll):
Liberal: 34.1%
PC: 9.7%
NDP: 50.3%
Green: 4.5%
Other: 1.4%

You can see the full map at http://www.thestar.com/staticcontent/1058980

Cristina Martins Runs Away From Diesel Facts

Not surprised. She just came to my house today and showed that she completely doesn't understand the electric train issue at all. She seemed unaware that the vast majority of people arriving for the Pan Am games will actually be bused into Toronto, that Electric Trains would offer cheaper long term service with more stops for residents in our riding, that the diesel plan is a "premium" plan too expensive for many in our riding. She seemed unaware that every anti-electric statement that Metrolinx has ever made has been shown to be incorrect (often by Meterolinx themselves). She suggested that asking for electric trains now was "shortsighted". Huh? This would fly in the face of what every modern transit system in the world thinks. As I listed publicly available facts she finally ran away.

I dont mind debating an issue with somebody that has an opinion and facts but this candidate is staggeringly ignorant of the issue and should have had the courtesy to do some homework before coming to my door near the rail corridor spouting generic PR answers. This candidate is not ready for prime time.

an aside: Her leader Dalton McGinty said last week in terms of protests about turbines that he trusted the Medical Officer of health rather than citizens. Too bad he did not trust the Toronto Medical Officer of health on the diesel issue.


I have a question that I have never heard answered. Where is the electricity coming from? What happens if there is a black out?

Electricity not an issue

Ontario's power consumption has been going down over the past few years. Electrification will create demand for power, just like everything else does. Expanded generation is seen as a province wide demand, not tied to a specific factory or location.

If there was a blackout dirty diesel trains would not run either, their signaling is electric.

Using electricity means that the source can be spread over many different generation locations. Diesel is stuck relying on oil and the issues of price and world market price that come with it. Both oil and electricity prices will go up but at least in the electricity market we have some element of control.

This is discussed in both reports I posted.

What diesel facts?

I can't imagine why anyone would fixate on the Pan Am games, perhaps the conversation looked like a waste of time.
If memory serves the internal rate of return on electrification was less than one percent. For that to save money you would have to be on time, on budget, and be able to borrow money at close to zero interest. In short, it is not really honest to say electric trains are cheaper. To then accuse the diesel option as being "premium" is nonsensical.
As for selectively listening to the medical officer of health, or feigning concern over being poisoned by diesel toxins lets look at this report from 2008:


page 8 includes an unqualified recommendation of the air rail link. The proposals from 1998 reaffirmed in 2005 are the diesel service currently under construction. No concern is expressed over train pollution. It's not that this was not considered. In November 2007 he released an extensive report on air pollution caused by traffic.

But of course that was before the project was embroiled in nimbyism.

Replacing the center lanes of Jane street with a light rail line would make a far bigger improvement for local transit and pollution.
The bottom line is that for anyone genuinely concerned with air quality active transport, and Transit City must be far higher priorities.

To be very brief since I'm on

To be very brief since I'm on a smart phone and not my computer,

Diesel is a big waste, and electric more cost effective (not cheaper) when you factor in the other circumstances,

But GO themselves plan this line to serve downtown biz commuters going to PIA
Well first of all they are about 15 yrs late or more, since the target audience they plan has rapidly adopted the island airport for biz commuting, and that is today, forget about in another 4yrs, those commuters are alredy getting good service and more carries will be flying from the island within the next 12-24mths, so the client they hope for will not have any reason to go to PIA which now goes back to who will be using this thing kicking all this diesel particles into the air running empty???

Secondly, by making it electric it can make local stops serving the communities it run through which now serves a dual purpose, it could stop in liberty village, west queen west, roncy, Bloor, Dupont, junction etc, now they can appeal to two audiences and not just the targeted audience, it almost serves as a more immediate downtown relief line that might never get built, so why find the money twice for duplication of service when by making this line electric once can serve a dual purpose

Not to mention the health benefits, noise, etc etc

To be very brief since I'm on

To be very brief since I'm on a smart phone and not my computer,

Diesel is a big waste, and electric more cost effective (not cheaper) when you factor in the other circumstances,

But GO themselves plan this line to serve downtown biz commuters going to PIA
Well first of all they are about 15 yrs late or more, since the target audience they plan has rapidly adopted the island airport for biz commuting, and that is today, forget about in another 4yrs, those commuters are alredy getting good service and more carries will be flying from the island within the next 12-24mths, so the client they hope for will not have any reason to go to PIA which now goes back to who will be using this thing kicking all this diesel particles into the air running empty???

Secondly, by making it electric it can make local stops serving the communities it run through which now serves a dual purpose, it could stop in liberty village, west queen west, roncy, Bloor, Dupont, junction etc, now they can appeal to two audiences and not just the targeted audience, it almost serves as a more immediate downtown relief line that might never get built, so why find the money twice for duplication of service when by making this line electric once can serve a dual purpose

Not to mention the health benefits, noise, etc etc

Some facts

"page 8 includes an unqualified recommendation of the air rail link". Yes it's the Transit City plan that uses ELECTRIC TRAINS, not diesel!

Toronto's Medical Officer of Health Dr. David McKeown has always insisted that the only acceptable mitigation to protect human health is the electrification of the service. That despite Metrolinx's attempts to mislead and distort his words (which they were nailed for).

Electric Trains were also part of Metrolinx's Big Move before they quietly disappeared in early 2009.

not facts

just empty claims with no links, no references, no evidence as usual.

But how good are your links?

Not very good. A careful reading of the document you posted shows that the document is about air pollution at the Island airport and not about the Georgetown expansion.

Your page 8 reference is incorrect.

The recommendations you trumpet are not by the Medical Officer of Health, they are by Community Air, a community air who opposed the Island Airport; their original letter containing these points is actually attached to the end of the document. The two motions by council mentioned in these recommendations:

The October 1 and 2, 1998 endorsement by Council for an airport link supported the CONCEPT of one of 3 options and asked for feasibility studies to determine the best route and costs. The motion came from the THE URBAN ENVIRONMENT AND DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE, not the Board of Health. This report, as one can see from reading it, had the potential 2008 Toronto Olympics as a driving force. As this motion was one of support there is no decision on the route or the technology. Diesel vs. electric was not part of this motions scope of reference. (http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/minutes/council/appa/cc981001/ud10rpt.htm) The second motion was again not generated by the Board of Health but again was in reference to the Pan Am games and again supported the CONCEPT not the technology. Neither of these council motions endorsed a technical aspect, it referred to that the EA.

The Medical Officer Of Health's recommendations are on page 2 and have nothing to do with the airport link. So, in short, you misread the document. The Medical Officer of Healths concerns appeared during the EA process, especially when Metrolinx refused to include electrification as an option. His opinion from that point has been posted here already many times and is unchanged.

For 500th time, nobody is against a green and efficient system to the airport. People are against diesel and it's service limitations and lifetime cost.


You would have us believe the Medical Officer of Health would extensively quote something he disagreed with and not mention anything about his disagreement.

Martins Toes Tired PR Line

Metrolinx has said that electric is a better option providing more service at a lower cost. Metrolinx's cost projections have tumbled by billions since they first said that electric was too expensive and not feasible. Now they trumpet diesel conversion to electric and are starting an electric EA. So Metrolinx has slowly moved its position to be in line with favoring an electric system and are looking at electrifying the entire system. They have had a change of technical heart.

Metrolinx and the government have called the service a premium service, their words not mine, placing it out of the budget of many and a higher cost than comparative systems. 100$ for a family of 4 to use the service one way? That doesn't sound like public transit to me.

Metrolinx ackowldged at a public meeting this year that their "1.5" million cars trips off the road claim is not based on a credible data and promised to stop using it.

An electric system would be cheaper than diesel in the long run according to Metrolinx's data AND would allow at least 2 additional stops on the route. That's good for users and for taxpayers (this additional access is not factored into Metrolinx's data but a system that could serves thousands more at basically the same price sounds like a good deal to me).

You seem unable to understand that people are FOR expanded commuter rail, rail that serves the most, is greener, and cost effective in the long run. Nimbyism? That accusation is the last refuge of those with no real argument given that thousands are demanding expanded electric service. I have yet to find one person who is against expanded electric rail service in the corridor. You fail to notice that some of these "facts" are now agreed on by Metrolinx. Metrolinx has moved towards the position of those who think an electric system day one is better. If they had not been so pig headed and trapped in an outdated mindset at the outset we might actually be on the road to electric right now. You speak about honesty but I remind you that Metrolinx initially 100% refused to even consider an electric system citing unfounded issues that they themselves have now backtracked on after their own studies backed up what the public was saying. I also remind you that Metrolinx was chastised by the Ad Standards Council for being misleading. I actually dont blame MX, they are forced to toe a position that is political and not even in line with their own evolving position.

When a candidate shows up and doesnt have a working knowledge of the issue is not a waste of time, it is actually sadly enlightening.

Lets look at a a quote from Martins. In the Bloordale Press she says:

"“These are not huge trains, they aren’t cargo trains,” Martins said. “I think it’s important that we implement them this way so that we can actually make the commitment to the Pan-American games, which will bring many, many jobs to Ontario, it will bring a lot of money to Ontario, about 250,000 tourists are expected.”

First off the jobs created are mostly short term and most have nothing do with the rail line. Buying electric trains from Bombardier in Ontario would have provided solid jobs for years (including maintenance ) instead of jobs in Japan.

The vast majority of Pan Am visitors and athletes will be bused and wont use the premium service (It says so in the Pan Am Games own literature). The airlink cannot possibly come even near moving 250,000 thousand people so it is somewhat dubious to use that large number as a way of defending the limited service.

We were promised that the games would be the greenest ever. But we are getting buses and diesel trains, hardly a link that serves thousands of people. After the games we will be stuck with a line that underserves the city and will need additional money for electric conversion.

I would add that Martin's comments as said by Tawnya also are an attempt to tie two unrelated issues together.Improvements to Bloor station and Weston station are part of the "Mobility Hub" plan and will happen regardless of whether the system is electric or diesel; remember that an electric system would easily allow at least 2 additional hubs at Queen and St. Clair and that STRENGTHENS the "Mobility Hub" vision ---which is according to Metrloinx "where different modes of transportation – from walking to biking to riding transit – come together seamlessly and where there is an intensive concentration of working, living, shopping and/or playing." I think Queen Street and St. Clair would be all for that and the long term jobs that would create. Too bad diesel cannot achieve this. Electric would have allowed the engineering and EA work for St. Clair and Queen to be done at the same time; a saving of money and the delivery of an economic boost to those additional stations right now when it is needed.

Martins also says in the Bloordale Press: "Martins said that these trains, which can be electrified, are the cleanest available, and if elected she will ensure that there will be no delay in converting them to electric."

The sad part of this quote is that we could be electric today if the Liberal government had not stuck its head in the sand. As a taxpayer I dont really like the idea that we bought diesel trains from Japan just for a 15 day event and that suddenly we will change the trains to electric at an additional cost. This is the kind of insanity that only politics can create.

I dont see much in her statement that is good for people who attend the games, for people who live here, or for taxpayers. I dont see anything from her that directly addresses how the people who actually live in the ward feel.Its just the same out of date PR spin we got 3 years ago.The Pan Am games is a pretty poor reason to waste money on a system that will have to be changed anyway. An all hybrid bus system (as used at other games) on HOV lanes while taking the time to build a good system would have made a lot more sense and if it was not for the fear of loosing face about the Pan Am games Metrolinx would have decided to wait and go electric. The Pan Am games have become a convenient excuse to continue a flawed idea rather than pursue a better plan.

Metrolinx in many ways has evolved and moved to what the pro transit public wants. Its evident when you talk with them and evident in their actions and off the record they all think electric is better . Its too bad that the government is concerned about loosing face.

Against my better judgement I

Against my better judgement I will respond to your points. If anyone had showed me that courtesy I might not now be inclined to use the term nimby. But in many cases there is no answer and that I guess is the issue. I will repeat however that while you may not understand the significance, the operating savings are so low that they would never cover the capital cost. That means that strictly speaking electrification is not financially viable. Arguably nuclear power isn't either politicians may not care about that point any more than you do.

Of course Mertolinx would be happy to operate an electric system if someone else pays for it. They do not have the money so it's not a meaningful point.

Of course Metrolinx position this as a premium service. Otherwise they would face accusations of having an incompetent marketing direction. Look at the way Porter is positioned, you may not like it but they position their service as a premium service. People who use it seem to feel the pricing is competitive and the service is good. Commercially they have been very successful. It's not priced to be used daily by a family of four, it would be nice if they could make some accommodation but this is not the time to worry about that. Actual pricing is a decision to be made as they enter service. The connection between a city rail hub and the airport is not directly analogous to any other transit route. I was at a meeting at city hall where a transit professor tried to explain this to the clean train group, I don't think anyone was listening.

Out of nowhere you raise some reference to 1.5 million cars. If the topic of discussion is electrification or diesel power they car displacement is not relevant. Perhaps you feel that if you can prove that Metrolinx has fabricated something than you should also have a similar licence. In that case the entire discussion is pointless.

"An electric system would be cheaper than diesel" - that is not valid. Repetition does not make it valid. The operating costs are a little lower but not by enough that they would ever cover the capital costs. This is a matter of very simple math. Metrolinx is happy to patronize you. That stands to reason but proves nothing.

Two additional stops would not be advantageous. The link between the rail hub and the airport is not the same as other lines. The reduction in value of the main service overwhelms any advantage again regardless of how you are powering the train. That is why they do not factor in the additional access. Again, this was explained but a U of T professor. Nobody was listening but I can't help that.

You don't need to worry about what I don't understand.

I avoided the use of the word nimby for a year but as simple questions go unanswered it is foolish to avoid the conclusion that many other people can see. When you ignore the arguments made it is spurious and meaningless to say there is no real argument.

Perhaps they would make decisions differently now. The context of the decisions was a province where rail service has been talked about for decades but funding has not shown up. Even worse, the previous incarnation of the Eglington Subway was filled in after being started and Go was forced to sell off equipment. If they went with anything but the cheapest option they faced a very real treat that a subsequent government would pull the plug. If you look at the design of the Transit City proposals they are so rigorous about being as cost effective as possible that it is mind boggling. This was a cheap option. There was a reason for it.

Again you are determined to prove that Metrolinx was misleading. That is interesting.

I don't really like the Pan-Am games, but it's not the only time infrastructure building has been tied to this kind of thing. You don't like Martins assessment. I get that. It sounds like the service was designed for the ongoing traffic not the peak load of the games, that seems reasonable to me.

The Mobility Hub will happen regardless of whether the system is electric or diesel, and you don't like Martins confusing the issue. If you don't want Martins to raise points that are not affected by the choice of motive power you should hold this standard to yourself first. No big deal, all people do this kind of thing but you have kind of thrown your own point out haven't you?

Some Reading Material-2 Reports Support Electric Benefits

From the Executive Summary of Metrolinx Electrification Study From the December 10 2010

There are transportation and economic benefits to electrification. There are also small environmental, social and community benefits. Health benefits are expected to be marginal. Electrification of any option would involve a significant capital investment, but would result in some operations and maintenance cost savings."


This report mirrors many of the points that I have made and in fact is where I get many of my conclusions. This study shows that Metrolinx has finally started to catch up with technology which is great but amazing since GO recommended going electric in 1991.

It is clear from the report that an electric system is a superior choice and that having more stops that serve more people is something that Metrolinx thinks is a good idea. The long term cost savings and increased ridership revenue is made clear in this report.

Being a technical report it's frame of reference does not address the lost of opportunity and added costs due to the government stalling on the issue nor does it include in its economic model the future conversion to electric costs again created by political stalling. It does make clear that had electrification been part of the mix from day one the there would have been integration efficiencies and cost savings for the entire GO network ---and that it is still not too late to realize them. One does not have to be an engineer to see that going electric as soon as possible still provides overall savings and a better served community. This is not a business, it is a public service whose benefits will not be measured only by fairbox return.

Transit Action's own exhaustive study adds to and challenges some of Metrolinx's numbers but agrees on electric as the best choice, and in the end, the most cost effective choice and they say with even greater economic spinoffs. The people involved in its writing are not just locals, they are people who have worked at GO or or other transit systems and they know what they are talking about. It also details the decades of political foot dragging by all parties that leads us to where we are today and more recently the foot dragging that will cost us money because they saw the benefit of electric AFTER they had started to bulldoze. Pretty sad really. http://www.transport-action.ca/dc/NoLittlePlan_Summary.pdf

Every point I have made is in these 2 reports. Its getting hard to love diesel and this flawed plan when two groups were initially were opposed to each other now essentially agree. I encourage people to read both studies to get clear on the facts and see whether candidates in the current election know the issue or are just continuing to drag their feet.

Greg Gormick

Greg Gormick, Greg Gormick, why does that name ring a bell?

Didn't he write an article about some transit line in New Jersey?


The equipment, the operating plan, the public-private partnership that built and operates the system and other aspects of the River LINE represent new and innovative approaches to rail transit service.

The first low-floor, articulated diesel multiple unit (DMU) light rail cars in the United States

NJ Transit has been outstanding in seeing the benefits and funding them.

He probably just got carried away quoting something and wrote a bunch of stuff he didn't really believe.

So your point is?

And his study, done with others, mirrors much of Metrolinx's own electrification study. So your point is?

me or your lying eyes.

I've got to watch some Groucho sometime - I love that quote.

Reading material is not the same as a reference. The issue is that you have failed to understand publicly available information and I guess you might feel motivated to obfuscate your reasoning. But that doesn't really change much.
Last year you were convinced that the cost of equipment would go through the roof. You went on at length and typically offered no specific references in an attempt to avoid accountability. I believe you misunderstood the bias of an industry spokesman. Of course when the contract for vehicles was signed that whole thing went unceremoniously out the window.
This time the question of who are you gonna believe doesn't matter. It's relatively straightforward to do the heavy lifting with your own lying eyes. If you don't have a financial calculator there are some web sites that will help you find the present value of an annuity. Using numbers from the electrification study highlights. It looks like the recommended plan would cost $1.7 billion, take 8 years to put into service and save 18 million per year. So using a discount rate of 5% calculating the value of an 18 million dollar annuity for 200 years I get a present value of $244 million dollars. So you are spending $1.7 billion and the present value of the savings are $244 million. That's not a good deal. It doesn't matter who you trust anybody can calculate this for themselves.
For what it's worth the clean train coalition is not a credible source.


Given the debt the province has, a 7% discount rate seems more appropriate. That would give a present value to all future savings of around $150 million. So we would be paying over $10 cash for every dollar that would ever be saved.
What gets me is the people who say there will be 400 trains a day running. "Hi, I'm Jonah, and I expect you to believe there is a secret plot to run a train to the airport every 3 1/2 minutes in the dead of the night when the subway isn't even running."
Expectations for voter intelligence are low.

MX Website Good Source

The plan is not secret, it has been publicly available in Metrolinx's documents for years. The 400 number is the APL plus Georgetown expanded service. That 400 number also does not include the addition of 2 way all day service on the sister branch which is the Barrie line so the actual number is much higher. The Barrie line vanished from Metrolinx's vocabulary after they floated the idea of closing off Wallace Avenue but has since been put back into their "The Big Move" maps. The number of trains will of course depend on demand but these are MX's numbers so we assume that some amount of research has gone into them. This information is available at the MX website. If you wish to argue these numbers you will have to take it up with MX.

You Have moved beyond issue' I'm out

Metrolinx's own studies support much of what I have said and people can look at the links and decide as most have.To be honest I dont really understand half of what you are talking about and now you seem to be into insulting the intelligence of and basking in some kind of perceived intellectual superiority over those who post here and I am not interested in that.

Re: Cristina Martins Runs Away from Diesel Facts

@Scott D - That's the exact impression I got when talking to someone from her office named Christine who identified herself as Cristina's campaign manager for my upcoming blog post about the diesel issue for the Toronto Star. They were woefully unaware of the facts and the background of the issue, with Christine basically saying that the needs of the community will be served by an improvements at the Bloor Station and that our neighbourhood will benefit from the increases in traffic. Convenient to forget that in addition to all these "traffic increases" that the neighbourhood will be poisoned by the diesel toxins. Every other party I spoke to was in full support of electrification now and seemed willing to work hard with the community to make that happen. Hopefully Cristina and her team will better educate themselves before the upcoming debates - it will be interesting to see what happens if they don't.

Election Issues from a Community Standpoint

Hi all,

I was just asked to be the Community Blogger for Davenport for the Toronto Star's Speak Your Mind project. I'm in the process of contacting the candidates to talk about the issues they think are of interest to Davenport residents, but I also want to talk to you - the very residents who will shape the Davenport political landscape on October 6. So, have at it - let me know what you're thinking, what you want from our candidates and what questions you'll be asking when the candidates come knocking. Note that as you answer, I may be quoting you in my posts, so please be mindful of personal attacks and other loaded comments. Looking forward to hearing from you!


Liberals to offer all-day GO train service in election platform

The Liberals really aren't making a huge effort to win votes along the train corridor, are they? http://www.570news.com/news/national/article/273658--cp-exclusive-libera...

Candidates Debate

1900 Davenport (at Symington and Davenport) is holding a candidates debate on Monday September 12th.


The debate is at 6:30 pm. Also, there was an article in the Star yesterday about our riding. It was in the Greater Toronto section. They were talking about Schein's odds of winning. Kirk never responded.

Debate is postponed

FYI... From Gabrielle and Marcelo at the DPNC:

"Hi everyone
Unfortunately, the Davenport MPP Candidates Meeting will not happen tonight.
We are looking at September 26 as a new date to re-schedule it. We will inform you on the new day and time soon.
Apologies for any inconvenience."

Candidates Debate

September 20, 2011 - Ward 9 Education Day
Education Day: Provincial Candidates Meeting
Tuesday, September 20, 2011, Beginning at 7:00 p.m.
Bloor Collegiate Institute - Auditorium
1141 Bloor Street West
Before they take a seat at Queen's Park, see where your candidates stand on public education. Coordinated by Trustee Maria Rodrigues and the Ontario Public School Boards' Association, Education Day in Davenport is a non-partisan event where the local candidates from the major provincial parties share their views and answer questions on the issues affecting public education.
The following nominated candidates for the Davenport Riding have been invited to participate – Cristina Martins (Liberal), Kirk Russell (Progressive Conservative), Jonah Schein (NDP) and Frank de Jong (Green).

de Jong and Schein first websites to highlight local issues

I notice that de Jong and Schein are the only candidates so far that have websites that feature Davenport issues. The Liberal candidate's site trumpets concern about air quality, "What's more, Ontario saw an increase in the use of dirty, smog-producing coal generation, putting at risk the health of our families." which seems at odds with their policy on diesel trains in our community. It will be fun to see how Cristina Martins reconciles that cognitive dissonance.

Response to Local Highlights

I can't wait for the clean energy revolution to take hold (sarcasm).

Also, Scott, you forgot to mention the fact that the Liberals are planning to offer all day Diesel train Go service. Not sure how that works with air quality either..... I guess it is a good thing they are committed to the future of health care.

Having had the experience of candidates who toe the party line, I'm certainly not intersted in that. Looking forward to the debate tomorrow night.

Davenport is a big ward with many issues and people

Scott davenport is quite big with many different issues and people. I don't think anyone really knows all the issues in Davenport. Plus. provincial politics is a little different then Federal.

I kind of like Cristina, I think she is going to give Jonah a "run for his money" I know he has been rumoured to be the front runner, only time will tell. Personnally I think Cristine represents the diversity of the davenport people then Jonah does, my opinion.

I hope Cristina will participate in the debate that is been organized by the group in Davenport scheduled sometime in September. I want to see how well she does. I think only Jonah has committed. I was asked to help them. I think they were waiting on the Liberals and the PC, very surprised with their choice for the PC candidate, that's all I will say to that. JF

Torontoist Ponders NDP's Jonah Schein

Torontoist ponders whether the NDP wave in Davenport will continue with Jonah Schein.


The link to the PC candidate is a must especially for "Add recent accomplishments" under Bio. : )

2 new candidates for Davenport (PC & Liberals)

Two new candidates for Davenport Riding( 2011- October Elections)
LIBERALS- Christina Martins
PC- Kirk Russell

Unfortunately Antonio couldn't continue as his wife having cancer and his child been sick as well and as everyone knowns Tony deciding to retire.

Getting a lot of choice

Seems the provincial election is goingthe way of the city election: a lot of choices being offered.

Just got a Liberal red flyer in my mailbox for MARK JAGG (his platform seems to centre around we have too many lawyers in politics)... so is he or is he not liberal leaning?

Kind of like KIRK RUSSELL whose same Liberal red campaign seemed to try to fool us into thinking he was/is a Liberal... now he is the PC candidate, perhaps hoping to come in on the coattails of the Ford Nation?

And why has no one mneantioned perennial runner and lives in Davenport activist FRANK de JONG? At least he is consistently GREEN.

Watch the show, folks and try to guess who is an opportunist and who is the real deal.

In my opinion, the Liberals are clutching at threads and going quickly desperate (really? offer seniors home visits by doctors is all they can do? Neatly forgetting their promise to address poverty issues....)

So far the NDP impresses me as a party, but Frank deserves a closer look.

Yike - Please Not another Ruprecht

Just looked at Liberal candidate's bio and it seems the liberals are using the tried and true method: find someone/anyone Portugese and it's a slam dunk. And why not? we have had no show Tony for decades and no one has raised a fuss.

I'd really prefer to vote for someone who has a track record of being noticed before an election is called, and I hope others look at the person and not the label.

"The federal riding of Davenport has been one of the most consistently Liberal ridings in Canada over the last century.... from 2006 census:Demographic Profile:
• 2006 population: 104,615
• 2001-2006 population change: -6.3 per cent
• Visible minority: 32.9 per cent
• Median household income: $47,463
• Rented: 45 per cent, versus owned: 55 per cent
• Average number of children at home per family: 1.2
• Unemployment rate: 7.3 per cent
the four dominant languages are: Portuguese, Italian, Spanish and English

Hadn't heard of Mark Jagg

Hadn't heard of Mark Jagg before, but a quick Google found his website:

I'll add it to the list above.


I hope he doesn't wear the suite when canvassing

The reason I say I hope he doesn't wear the uniform when door knocking. There might be residents who come from countries where the government, military or police were corrupted or were victims of abused(Mentally, physically or sexually) by people in uniform. JF

Was told Mark Jagg was around Sterling

A resident on Sterling rd told me MJ was around Sterling speaking to residents couple of weeks back. I was also given the flyer he was handing out.

MJ was telling residents that he has know Tony R. for many years. Thinking that this will make him popular because of his association. I do reconize one of the photos on his handout, the one with MJ and Bernice Sampson. She was the mother of murdered 8 yr old girl Kaitlynn Sampson. I did the vigil for her daughter along with the 14 div..

This was and stil is a very complicated story, whch I won't get into as everyone has read the papers. JF

Should Be Lively

Mark Jagg has the look of a protest one issue candidate. He seems to like wearing clothing that looks like a uniform. He should liven things up a bit. : )

A least in terms of non-stop candidate Frank de Jong running for MPP means that his ideas actually connect with the office. I thought his ideas were beyond the scope of municipal politics and as well meaning as he is I thought his run for council was a waste of his abilities.

Jonah Schein has a pretty solid record working with organizations such as The Stop Community Food Centre to help our fellow citizens who are in need. I am not a fan of the current NDP platform but I acknowledge their strong pro-electric train stance and I think in terms of Davenport Jonah is pretty strong.

Whoever wins at least we are finally rid of No-show Ruprecht and his anti-aging "super foods". : )

Didn't realize it I didn't add my name to above post

Above post was done by me. Jack

Vic, noticed that when you click Kirks

`Hey Vic,

I guess you or someone eles who updated the candidates names. However when you click on Kirk`s name it goes to something else, unlike the other 3 candidates which goes to their web site. Out of respect either delete it or get his proper website, if he has one JF

Kirk's site

That's the site he links to from his Twitter profile. I would expect he'll have something there shortly. https://twitter.com/#!/kirkrussellpc

De-Amalgamation of Toronto

I would like to know if any candidate in Davenport will make de-amalgamation part of their election platform. In the meantime, please consider signing the petition. It has become apparent that the interests/values of downtown residents are in no way similar to those in the suburbs. http://www.petitiononlinecanada.com/petition/de-amalgamate-toronto/219

Ruprecht not seeking re-election

According to Mike Crawley (@CBCQueensPark on Twitter):

CBCQueensPark Mike Crawley
The Toronto seat of Davenport vacated by Liberal Tony Ruprecht is high on NDP target list. He only won it by 1,500 votes last time. #VoteON

CBCQueensPark Mike Crawley
Another one bites the dust: Liberal MPP Tony Ruprecht will not seek re-election. Now 12 incumbent Liberals not running. #VoteON

Invisible Tony

That's why I didn't get my little complimentary Canada flag in the mail this year. At least he's got enough smarts to realize when the games up. A true opportunist!

Tony Who?

You mean I wont get another 5 copies of Tony's environmental plan booklet complete with Photoshopped photos from 25 years ago? I have only recycled about 20 copies over the last term. Never has so much paper been wasted to save trees.

Tony In the Villager

Did anyone see the story about Tony not running this fall in the Villager? I really like the part where he says "after 33 years in public life, I have always placed constituents' priorities before my personal needs."

What a classic. I'm tempted

What a classic. I'm tempted to clip it out and save it!

"No Show" Ruprecht

Like when he was absent at the Clean Train Rally. What a joke. Sadly for 33 years he has been my MPP here and before that in Parkdale. His reputation as "No Show" Ruprecht stretches way back. As a card carrying Liberal at the time it was a pain to actually support a party and be so disappointed with my own Liberal MPP. It amazes me that invisible politicians get re-elected over and over again. I think Davenport has awoken so the free ride for any politician is over.

Yes he was was absent, but

Scott D,

Yes Tony was absent for many years, specially at the end. However I do remember him as a young boy growing up in ward18/davenport, he was very active, specially when we had all those factories and environmental issues, he was always there, don't know what happen at the end???? I also critized him to his face about him been absent. I said this both to Mario and Tony in a packed house at Wallace Emerson one year.

But one thing is for sure, Tony is leaving with a better reputation then your boy Adam Giambrone, don't remember you criticizing him. Many people that I spoke to out side JT remember him as a good man, believe me they don't feel the same with Adam, I just wanted to point that out

Cant remember what you dont see

You dont remember me criticizing Adam because you are never around at community meetings. For example I was very critical of how 351 Wallace was handled, thats on the public record. Far from being my boy, I did not vote for Adam the second time he ran.

Rather than sit on the sidelines though taking cheap shots I feel it important to find the things that a person and their councillor or mpp DO agree on and move to make them happen. Otherwise one is sidelined in the process, left out of touch with what is going on. In Tony's case I made many calls and emails to get him on board with things like electric trains but he just talked in circles as evidenced in Jeff Winch's film.

SD, You have the wrong guy

SD, You keep mentioning sidelines. I do my own work, front and centre, been doing community work for over 20 yrs. Working on couple of projects as we speak, sorry I think you mistaken me for someone eles.

Don't know anything about Jeff's film either??? You mention Tony not part taken with clean/electric train. There are many people in Davenport who still don't know about clean trains or electric trains.

I hope Jeff is speaking about the traffic on Dupont, the idling,polution and co2. This is a health issue as well. I don't hear anyone talking about it. I know someone who lives on Dupont who is concerned about the idling and the co2 has informed the Lung Association, the Provincal Public Health and Ana's office. JF

Please stay on-topic

Instead of branching into various random directions, let's keep this forum focused on the 2011 Provincial Election.

If you want to bring up other local topics about other issues, please start a new forum topic.


Another tidbit that's not in the film: In March of 2010 I asked Tony's office for his attendance records at Queens Park and a report on his expenses. I was told in an e-mail from Tony himself that this information would be forthcoming (provincial politicians do not have to make this info public surprisingly, it's optional for them). By March 2011 I still had not received the requested information and you can be sure I never will. Rob Ford is currently playing the same game at city hall not being forthcoming with his own expenses.

In your film will you Raise Awareness

Jeff in your film do you also speak about or raise awareness about the traffic on dupont and other places in Toronto. The idling of cars, the co2 been put in the air in the JT. Yes I hear alot about clean trains, electric vs diesel, but what about all the cars, trucks and other vehicles poluting the air????

This is more of a threat then the trains right now??? JF

Film Good Election Issue Primer

The issue with Metrolinx is more than just about diesel. The entire world has abandoned new diesel commuter services for many reasons beyond air quality. Every independent transit expert (and off the record MX engineers) state that electric systems allow more stops which would be good for the entire west region of Toronto and require less maintenance which saves money. MX is spending a lot of tax dollars for a service that only has 4 stops and is a premium priced service un-affordable to many residents (and airport employees).An electric service would serve far more people (because electric trains can stop and start faster and more efficiently) and help reduce the ticket price while helping remove more cars from the road right here along the route. Other issues include the future mitigation walls that may divide communities and the overall economic feasibility of this huge expenditure; SNC walked away from running the service and that should be a warning to taxpayers. You get a sense in the film of how a political party can close its eyes and ears to a better choice; the sad part being that most want expanded public transit. The film covers all these details.

Interesting too is the scene where Tony Ruprecht basically puts his own hide ahead of that of the community. It is a shameless abdication of public office and viewers will find it maddening.

The issue of future electrification is not a done deal despite how MX tries to spin it and we will need to keep this issue on the election agenda this fall. Seeing this film will help those who dont yet understand the issue ask the right questions at candidate meetings.

There are many who know about electric train, but

Like I told Mike Sullivan a few times, there are many residents in JT and across Davenport who were born and lived in Countries were electric trains were used, however most of the literature that has been sent out has been in one language only, English. I was told that there is strength in numbers, but we keep reaching out to english speaking people only.

Mike said that he would do his best to put out flyers and literature in different languages, but that didn't happen. I think CTC can do a better job in getting more info out in different languages. If it happens that diesel train is used and if it's as bad as they are saying then all residents will be effected, not just englsih speaking only. JF

Demographics and Languages in Ward 18

This topic regarding residents of Davenport reading and speaking English has been discussed before at

If there will be further debate about Ward 18 language issues and demographics, please post comments in this existing forum:

Thank you.

Working for the people

It was mentioned that Tony did a lot of work in this area before but hasn't been around in recent years. Those are the years that I am having the problem with. We are paying for his salary, he is getting an income and not doing the work while telling a neighbourhood newspaper that he has put the community before his needs. I know that he was present when there was the pollution problems in the area. He did a job and got paid. Now he is still getting paid and not doing his job. What other job is out there that this can happen? If he was tired and didn't have the energy for the work then he should have stepped aside and let someone else take over. At least he has finally come to his senses.

Ask Candidates

I too asked for that kind of information as did Roger Brook and nothing was forthcoming.Tony stalled for 3 years! I hope that during the election residents will make disclosure a point; specifically that there is no obligation to report or keep attendance records. Ask the candidates will they post attendance for residents to see.

Jonah Schein nominated for Davenport NDP

I'm seeing lots of Twittering about Jonah Schein winning the NDP nomination for Davenport tonight. I guess I was wrong about Paul Pighin already having the nomination earlier.

This makes it more interesting, as he's a pretty well-known community organizer / activist.

Jonah has a pretty strong

Jonah has a pretty strong record of being active in the community and working to fight poverty. He has energy, new ideas, and likes electric trains.

Here is link to Ontario

Here is link to Ontario Liberal Party website and to list of candidates for election. Unless I am missing it, I don't see Ruprcht's name there:
Also, see this link to Jonah Schein website where he states intent to run for NDP. (but I guess it is possible that the nomination meeting was held after he posted this and that he lost to Pighin.)


I was just looking at the Liberal Party of Ontario's website and noticed that Ruprecht's name is not on their list of candidates for the 2011 election. Is there anyone out there who is a member of the Liberal Davenport Riding Association? If so, as Ruprecht been nominated as your candidate again?
Also, I hear Jonah Schein is after the ndp nomination in the riding.

Provincial candidates

Not sure about Ruprecht... As for the NDP, it looks like Paul Pighin already has the NDP nomination (check link above and this Google search).