No worries for people not involved -- even jr CSI watching viewers can say it's a matter of fingerprints and handwriting analysis for everyone who touched the signs and looking up those who were holding garbage protest signs and then matching the current topsoil for free writing with fingerprints. Yes, it could be anyone so everyone associated with all the signage is fair game.
Believe me I am not worried about it but those that have their fingerprints on this vandalism, literally, should. Do either of you recall who made the signs I have posted about at the protest? They are very similar to the vandal ones. Your help would be appreciated.
Scott we have our own theory about this. I was with my son with we first seen the signs. I asked around myself who had done this, nobody knew. Maybe this was done deliberately to frame someone else. It's like the game as a kid, when someone passed gas, they would always blame someone else, saying you done this, but at the end it was the kid who pointed the finger to begin with.
Scott, you better be careful who you point a finger at regarding the "free soil sign". There are many on that street who are not happy with the out come of Adams games.
Let me clarify something right now, Jack didn't meet with Adam I did along with the person who's house is right next to the park expansion. Adam myself and this neighbour went to the site. This neighbour was pissed-off about this. I was there as a go between so there wouldn't be any foolishness happening....if you get my drift. We looked at many solutions to the problem. Adam agreed and nodded politely with sugestions I made in attemps to appease this resident. In Adams words "I was going to have a consultation with residence in the area in Januaryto discuss this site." That didn't happen and those who live right by it are angry at Adam for lying to them and quite frankly me too. So blame is Adams for not leveling with all of us.
We talk about community gardens and I am all for it. I was walking towards the bike path on Wallace when I saw the hudge land that was once Gliden Pant. Can you imagine the size of the community garden we could have over there? Not to mention a community centre. It blows my mind as to the possibilities.
And as for garbage. I am with you 100% we waste more then we reuse. As you know, it takes awhile to retrain and program individuals to think green. My son works with Al Gore and he is trying to change peoples minds one person at a time. It is slow but he is getting through to many. We all need to do the same.
Kevin, so nice to see you in good form today. I hear you been saying nice things about me lately. Thanks for all the good words.
I have to say this much about Jack and his political ambitions. He has none. The last time we had municipal elections I had encouraged Jack to run for trustee, he declined. Others in the community have done the same with the same result. If he refused to run as trustee what makes you think he will run for council? And as for me...no way. I would rather be at this end thank you.
You keep referring to conservatinve-tory blogger. Who in the world is that? Not Jack or myself. We vote"Green" in all elections.
You must realize, that you must work with anyone who can help you achieve your goal. If that means working with Liberal, Conservative or NDP so be it. I get along very nicely with everyone. Even you.
You know I love you don't you. Love always.
Top Soil Sign 2It was brought to my attention that many of the signs seen at this summers dump protest appear to be very similar to the signs that were encouraging people to steal from the City. There are many similarities not only in writing but also in tone and in the paper used.
I was not involved or around for the protest so I have no idea who was making specific signs. Possibly nobody knows.
It seems to me though that somebody involved in the protest or who was there on a regular basis must have some idea who created these signs and I ask that people jog their memories or look at photos or video they may have taken at the time to see if they can come up with anything. I ask the organizers as they were the primary placers of signs if they recall who was doing which signs. There were a lot of photos and video of that location during the strike so something will turn up and be turned in to the Police.
Encouraging people to steal from all of us by fooling them is really a cruel and dishonest way to advance your message and makes a mockery of the centuries old tradition of posting bills of public importance. Even if people disagree with opinions there still needs to be some level of trust and responsibility that usually starts with putting your name on anything you post. Its obvious in this case why that wasn’t done; most people would be against stealing or vandalizing public property.
Maybe these topsoil signs were a dumb idea gone bad. An idea that was formed in the heat of the moment that in hindsight one wishes they could take back.
To whoever did this you have an opportunity to speak up to say sorry and take ownership of it. People will respect you for it. If you are caught out then you risk looking the respect of the community. Look at the pix and compare similar letters or words such as the double lower case "ee". There are more photos with similarities that I am not posting due to space.
You don't know who wrote the flyer? You didn't receive any communications advice from a Conservative-Tory blogger about how to attack the Councillor? One of your close companions didn't say let's attack the Councillor like he has never been attacked?
People like me voted with their garbage bags and filled the arena. That tells me what people in the area thought about the temporary dump. I am green and had no problem with it. In fact I thought it was a good visual wake up call for some people about reducing waste in the first place.
I don't think the City needs to consult on every single thing they do, especially getting rid of a piece of road smaller than my back yard (which is not very big). In terms of a community garden I am 100% with you that people should have a say in how their public space is used. We will have that and I know you will be there. But lets wait until that happens and see what everybody has to say instead of shaping the issue in advance. You already have met with Adam about it which more consultation than anybody else in the community has had. As you aware somebody has been trying to whip up a frenzy about this as if they were putting in a atomic plant or something. I have some compromise ideas that may appeal to you and I talked with the tenant John at the corner and he saw some wiggle room too so maybe everybody can be happy. I would hope that you too might have some compromise ideas as well. I think there is far broader support and more common interest than most realize.
In terms of all the NDP Adam stuff I have no idea and vote for different people depending on the election. This is not a political issue for me.
Kevin, I think the acid is wearing off. Wake up, the war is over. Who is feeding you this shit??? If I run for politics, who would keep the politician accountable
Let me try to respond from the end going to the beginning. Me marching for Christie Ptitts, Moss Park and Campbell park during the garbage strike, if that is what you are referring to. Is I was disgusted with the City and the Medical officer allowing pesticides to be sprayed and garbaging been dumped in parks. Pesticide is very harmful to seniors and yes, it was very close to gardens, who wants to eat vegs with pesticide laced on it. I didn't see to many from those who want to see more a green in the city or environmentalist or others screaming about the throwing of garbage and spraying of pesticide that was bad for the honey bees in our green spaces. Oh yes, supporting the union is far more important then the environment. All those who screams green, environmental and gardens all disappeared during the strike. Either you care about the environment or you don't.
It seems to me that their is consulation and information sharing done differently in this ward. Some people in this ward know more then others. I hear things from people about things that is happening in this ward, instead of hearing it from Adam office. That's his job, he works for us, we don't work for him. He needs to inform ALL residents in ward 18. I find that and you might not agree with me, but the reason we are in this mess to begin with is because of Adam. There are many in Toronto who feel very much like I do. Why do you think the NDP has not won a seat in Davenport and I told Peter this, if you want to win stay away from Adam. Many past loyal NDP supporters, not me, but past NDP supporters decided to vote Green instead, because of Adam. The numbers don't lie. We can go back and forth if you want ,but I don't want to. The residents have genuine concerns and Adam should listen to them. There are other stuff that has been shared by residents and Adam, which many of you don't know, so some are hearing only part of the story, it's in his court. He should have a meeting and really listen to what they have to say. Jack
Jack, who wrote the misinformation flyer about the expansion of the Erwin Krickhahn Park that was distributed to area homes on October 16th? see https://www.junctiontriangle.ca/node/497 Was the author a Conservative-Tory blogger and communications consultant who does contract work for the Privy Council office in Ottawa?
Did you receive "strategic" communications advice over the weekend about how to attack the Councillor from this consultant?
Did one of your close companions really say on the weekend "let's attack Giambrone like he has never been attacked before"?
Are you really considering running for Councillor in next year's municipal election? Failing that, will you run for School Board Trustee in next year's municipal election?
Of course, there is nothing wrong/illegal about taking advice from a Conservative-Tory blogger and communications consultant who does contract work for the Privy Council office in Ottawa, but if you are spreading misinformation in attempt just to smear the Councillor, you have a duty to let all area residents know that you have a political agenda and their interests are secondary to your goals and ambitions.
Try and be calm and let's avoid the name calling for a change.
Gardens don't create or attract rats any more than any other garbage does. I agree that that underpass was a stupid idea and should never have been built. Filling it in would be a great idea. It may have to anyway with the planned GO expansion on the Barrie line (Jack there is a future topic for you start planning about: a giant wall, a giant ditch, or the complete closure of Wallace). If there are rats, they already exist and probably like the garbage on the tracks at Wallace best.
Keeping an area clean is the first step in reducing mice rats and other critters. I am not picking on Rankin Street ( I have cleaned up garbage all over the area including some in front of my house) but I have noticed on the west side near Wallace there has been a pile of garbage for weeks. That will do more to bring vermin than any vegetable garden will; they love human garbage first. Step one in the battle of the critters is humans dealing with their own waste first. At Perth and Wallace there is an ongoing battle with somebody who leaves bags of garbage on the corner in the middle of the night.
If vermin was an issue why do you find community gardens in almost every community in every town and city? If gardens bring rats why do people have them in their backyards then?
I agree with you that a community garden, if thats what people want, should not be next to a persons house. In fact I think it would work far better if it ran north south along the east side of the park then the new green space would in fact increase the length of the park towards the houses which everybody would like. More green. In terms of people scaling the wall I don't see what the connection is. But if a future garden is put where I said this would not be an issue anyway.
In terms of being dictated to, you yourself posted on this site about the (then) upcoming Community Council meeting about creating more green and therefore where aware of it, had access to the background file and drawings and could have gone to the meeting to have your say or submitted a written letter. The public is allowed to speak and you or others had a chance to go. I have been to many CC meetings myself. Part of having a city government is so that staff can plan and move ahead. If every time a sidewalk was created or a tree planted you had to have the community consult on it then nothing would ever get done. A future garden has not been decided and a meeting has been planned as seen in the mailing that went to every house in this ward. When that meeting happens I will lobby for a garden but I will also lobby to have it in a better spot for the park design.
Lastly, when talking about respecting seniors, do you mean the seniors that started their own community garden a block away on rail land? The ones who would like more space for a proper garden where they can meet others in the community? By young people do you mean the ones from the public schools on Perth that already have field trips to the community garden north of Dupont or the Boys and Girls Club on Ernest who want their own plot near their own homes? Or maybe the youth that one day will be serviced by the new breakfast program which was advised by a poverty expert that community gardens help children learn and can feed them? Its worth noting that you marched in support of Christie Pits and Moss Park last summer, both of which have community gardens serving seniors, and those trying to get a leg up.If you are taking about seniors and youth, possibly at risk youth, then they probably are the ones with the most to gain based on what they say and what we see in other communities.
To this day I still have to field concerns from local residents who were led to believe that the garden in Erwin K. Park was going to be expanded and take over the entire park. In no way was that true. There was never any plan to remove the existing play struture to make the entire park a vegetable garden. It is lies like these and people that are not properly informed that gets the community in an uproar. Where is the discussion?
First of all people were jumping the wall while the road was paved so I can not see what the arguement for making it green is all about. Second, telling neighbours to help themselves to city property does not help lower the cost of the project. The top soil is in place, the road has been dug up and the new sidewalk has been laid. It looks beautiful!! We should now be looking at what to do with the space. One suggestion I have is to make it a memorial tulip garden for community members who have made a difference in our community. Plaques can be engraved through the Boys and Girls club. It would be a win-win situation. Any other suggestions?
You say to Mr Fava, you don't represent the community, neither do you. Look at your mouth and your own actions, before you point the finger at someone else. Talking about calling the kettle black. I don't know neither of you and don't want too either .
Why all of this beating around the bush??? Mr. Fava, you still need to go away. We all have seen you at your bullying best. Your "taxpayer, ratepayer" routine is lame. If you wish to debate then do so. It just seems that you are never able to during our meetings. You and your equally annoying partner have not earned anyone's respect and therefore will not receive any from this corner.
The fearmongering, crack & rats, is right up your alley.
Mr. Fava please remember, you do not, nor have you ever, represented me or my neighbours.
This is the next great little neighbourhood in the west end before Keele St. Let it grow without the screaming and yelling.
Green Goo,
You ask "How do we create an atmosphere that does not nurture a bully?" I'm sorry but the only OVERT bullying that I see on this page is by Patsy and her "wingnut" comment.
I can understand why many people like the idea of community gardens (personally, I'd like to see one in a park that's close to where I live). But I'm not so self-centred and arrogant as to think that everyone who doesn't agree with me is scum... or that it will be good for the neighborhood regardless of whether people have had a chance to voice their views and concerns.
It's not gardens that build communities... it's our attitude towards our neighbors that build communities. If we are not capable of showing respect and consideration to those we agree with as well as those we disagree with (and God knows I don't always agree with Jack), we are not building community. Those who champion green spaces or community gardens while telling their neighbors to "crawl under a rock" are not building community... they are preventing community from taking place.
But rather than call Patsy out on her vitriol, you actually defend her and go on to label the object of her scorn, Jack, as the bully. Hmmm. GreenGoo, in case the irony is lost on you, your comment is a perfect example of nurturing the bully (Patsy) -- whereby those on the sidelines join in against someone who has been targeted for social ostracism. It's classic schoolyard behaviour as any teacher knows.
So, to get back to your question about "How do we create an atmosphere that does not nurture a bully?" my suggestion is that you can start by not nurturing bullies who tell others to go crawl under a rock. That doesn't mean you have to agree with Jack or others, but telling people to crawl under a rock (or condoning such statements) is not appropriate.
It's funny how this went from residents wanting consulation as promised by Adam, to been a Tory thing. I think the family living next door to the dead end should and deserves a say to what is happening in their back yard, they are however tax payers, like many others. Many of us are laughing at the Toronto Sun article, I don't think any one at the park that day, when the Sun reporter was their, including our young people, a group of four 15 years olds, that you call trash, really care about Tory verses NDP. I myself, if you really want to know, supported the Green party the last federal election, not the Conservative, like many others in ward 18 done . But fuzzy( Kevin) decided it was good strategy to start this rumor, to me I think it was funny. Kevin wasn't even man enough to say he was from the Fuzzy group, instead he said he was with some Junction Triangle group. Many of us trash as you call us, come from country's who lived off the land by hunting, fishing,growing our own vegetables to survive, remember lot of them were kids from the second war and knew about surviving. My mother who is in her late 70's still grows her own garden every year since coming from europe in the 60's. So many of us do know about gardens, more then some of you.
Still some of us think a community garden in this certain location is not a good idea. Reasons:
1) Rats coming from the rail tracks and the under the rail path which is now closed,will become a problem. Many residents living on Rankin have experienced and still experiencing rat problems.
2) The garden is to close to the residence.
3) People are still scaling the wall who cross the track when coming from the otherside, will just attrack unwanted vistors.
4) Maybe grass, trees and scrubs will be a better choice then a garden
As ratepayers/taxpayers we have the right to our opinions and we don't needed to be dictated to. I don't care if you don't have respect for me, but al least have respect for the seniors and young people who are sharing their opinions. I don't think calling someone trash,when you don't even know them is really fair.
I agree with Kristen both that extending the park is a good idea and on the importance of individuals representing themselves. I think a garden would be a great use of the space. The Wingnut note seemed a little over the top until I found the Sun article. I think the frustration is understandable. Oddly, given that he doesn't seem to make much sense, Fava might do better in a neighbourhood of crackheads. Them and journalists with tight deadlines who are unencumbered by an overexposure to, um, skule. With the Sun printing his hyperbole of rats and crackheads being attracted to a park I guess he's batting 500. I don't think it's a matter of left or right, this is a special case.
There is a matter of community discussions. People need to feel free represent themselves in an atmosphere accepting of contrary opinions and free of bullying. For that to work, the lubricant of creativity and social interaction become very important. People need to like each other enough to do the work of trying to understand things they don't at first agree with. I guess the question I am working around is this: How do we create an atmosphere that does not nurture a bully.
...even the ones who found the top soil for free signs too and gave it to the police, as their fingerprints are on it too.
God, I must watch less t.v.! :-)
No worries for people not involved -- even jr CSI watching viewers can say it's a matter of fingerprints and handwriting analysis for everyone who touched the signs and looking up those who were holding garbage protest signs and then matching the current topsoil for free writing with fingerprints. Yes, it could be anyone so everyone associated with all the signage is fair game.
Elementary my dear Watson. ;-)
"To whoever did this you have an opportunity to speak up to say sorry and take ownership of it."
Looks like they spoke up! Too bad they didn't have the guts to apologize.
Community gardens on the former Gliden plant ? Already on it . As I said community gardens are mainstream. everybody wants them everywhere.
Believe me I am not worried about it but those that have their fingerprints on this vandalism, literally, should. Do either of you recall who made the signs I have posted about at the protest? They are very similar to the vandal ones. Your help would be appreciated.
Scott we have our own theory about this. I was with my son with we first seen the signs. I asked around myself who had done this, nobody knew. Maybe this was done deliberately to frame someone else. It's like the game as a kid, when someone passed gas, they would always blame someone else, saying you done this, but at the end it was the kid who pointed the finger to begin with.
Scott, you better be careful who you point a finger at regarding the "free soil sign". There are many on that street who are not happy with the out come of Adams games.
Let me clarify something right now, Jack didn't meet with Adam I did along with the person who's house is right next to the park expansion. Adam myself and this neighbour went to the site. This neighbour was pissed-off about this. I was there as a go between so there wouldn't be any foolishness happening....if you get my drift. We looked at many solutions to the problem. Adam agreed and nodded politely with sugestions I made in attemps to appease this resident. In Adams words "I was going to have a consultation with residence in the area in Januaryto discuss this site." That didn't happen and those who live right by it are angry at Adam for lying to them and quite frankly me too. So blame is Adams for not leveling with all of us.
We talk about community gardens and I am all for it. I was walking towards the bike path on Wallace when I saw the hudge land that was once Gliden Pant. Can you imagine the size of the community garden we could have over there? Not to mention a community centre. It blows my mind as to the possibilities.
And as for garbage. I am with you 100% we waste more then we reuse. As you know, it takes awhile to retrain and program individuals to think green. My son works with Al Gore and he is trying to change peoples minds one person at a time. It is slow but he is getting through to many. We all need to do the same.
Kevin, so nice to see you in good form today. I hear you been saying nice things about me lately. Thanks for all the good words.
I have to say this much about Jack and his political ambitions. He has none. The last time we had municipal elections I had encouraged Jack to run for trustee, he declined. Others in the community have done the same with the same result. If he refused to run as trustee what makes you think he will run for council? And as for me...no way. I would rather be at this end thank you.
You keep referring to conservatinve-tory blogger. Who in the world is that? Not Jack or myself. We vote"Green" in all elections.
You must realize, that you must work with anyone who can help you achieve your goal. If that means working with Liberal, Conservative or NDP so be it. I get along very nicely with everyone. Even you.
You know I love you don't you. Love always.
I was not involved or around for the protest so I have no idea who was making specific signs. Possibly nobody knows.
It seems to me though that somebody involved in the protest or who was there on a regular basis must have some idea who created these signs and I ask that people jog their memories or look at photos or video they may have taken at the time to see if they can come up with anything. I ask the organizers as they were the primary placers of signs if they recall who was doing which signs. There were a lot of photos and video of that location during the strike so something will turn up and be turned in to the Police.
Encouraging people to steal from all of us by fooling them is really a cruel and dishonest way to advance your message and makes a mockery of the centuries old tradition of posting bills of public importance. Even if people disagree with opinions there still needs to be some level of trust and responsibility that usually starts with putting your name on anything you post. Its obvious in this case why that wasn’t done; most people would be against stealing or vandalizing public property.
Maybe these topsoil signs were a dumb idea gone bad. An idea that was formed in the heat of the moment that in hindsight one wishes they could take back.
To whoever did this you have an opportunity to speak up to say sorry and take ownership of it. People will respect you for it. If you are caught out then you risk looking the respect of the community. Look at the pix and compare similar letters or words such as the double lower case "ee". There are more photos with similarities that I am not posting due to space.
You don't know who wrote the flyer? You didn't receive any communications advice from a Conservative-Tory blogger about how to attack the Councillor? One of your close companions didn't say let's attack the Councillor like he has never been attacked?
Since the last time I was hear. Same ol, Same Ol: New vs Old crap. Name calling, claims of hidden agenda etc etc.. list goes on.
Unfortunately, I don't have anything to add except the disappointment.
Ranajit
Hi Jack
People like me voted with their garbage bags and filled the arena. That tells me what people in the area thought about the temporary dump. I am green and had no problem with it. In fact I thought it was a good visual wake up call for some people about reducing waste in the first place.
I don't think the City needs to consult on every single thing they do, especially getting rid of a piece of road smaller than my back yard (which is not very big). In terms of a community garden I am 100% with you that people should have a say in how their public space is used. We will have that and I know you will be there. But lets wait until that happens and see what everybody has to say instead of shaping the issue in advance. You already have met with Adam about it which more consultation than anybody else in the community has had. As you aware somebody has been trying to whip up a frenzy about this as if they were putting in a atomic plant or something. I have some compromise ideas that may appeal to you and I talked with the tenant John at the corner and he saw some wiggle room too so maybe everybody can be happy. I would hope that you too might have some compromise ideas as well. I think there is far broader support and more common interest than most realize.
In terms of all the NDP Adam stuff I have no idea and vote for different people depending on the election. This is not a political issue for me.
Kevin, I think the acid is wearing off. Wake up, the war is over. Who is feeding you this shit??? If I run for politics, who would keep the politician accountable
Let me try to respond from the end going to the beginning. Me marching for Christie Ptitts, Moss Park and Campbell park during the garbage strike, if that is what you are referring to. Is I was disgusted with the City and the Medical officer allowing pesticides to be sprayed and garbaging been dumped in parks. Pesticide is very harmful to seniors and yes, it was very close to gardens, who wants to eat vegs with pesticide laced on it. I didn't see to many from those who want to see more a green in the city or environmentalist or others screaming about the throwing of garbage and spraying of pesticide that was bad for the honey bees in our green spaces. Oh yes, supporting the union is far more important then the environment. All those who screams green, environmental and gardens all disappeared during the strike. Either you care about the environment or you don't.
It seems to me that their is consulation and information sharing done differently in this ward. Some people in this ward know more then others. I hear things from people about things that is happening in this ward, instead of hearing it from Adam office. That's his job, he works for us, we don't work for him. He needs to inform ALL residents in ward 18. I find that and you might not agree with me, but the reason we are in this mess to begin with is because of Adam. There are many in Toronto who feel very much like I do. Why do you think the NDP has not won a seat in Davenport and I told Peter this, if you want to win stay away from Adam. Many past loyal NDP supporters, not me, but past NDP supporters decided to vote Green instead, because of Adam. The numbers don't lie. We can go back and forth if you want ,but I don't want to. The residents have genuine concerns and Adam should listen to them. There are other stuff that has been shared by residents and Adam, which many of you don't know, so some are hearing only part of the story, it's in his court. He should have a meeting and really listen to what they have to say. Jack
Jack, who wrote the misinformation flyer about the expansion of the Erwin Krickhahn Park that was distributed to area homes on October 16th? see https://www.junctiontriangle.ca/node/497 Was the author a Conservative-Tory blogger and communications consultant who does contract work for the Privy Council office in Ottawa?
Did you receive "strategic" communications advice over the weekend about how to attack the Councillor from this consultant?
Did one of your close companions really say on the weekend "let's attack Giambrone like he has never been attacked before"?
Are you really considering running for Councillor in next year's municipal election? Failing that, will you run for School Board Trustee in next year's municipal election?
Of course, there is nothing wrong/illegal about taking advice from a Conservative-Tory blogger and communications consultant who does contract work for the Privy Council office in Ottawa, but if you are spreading misinformation in attempt just to smear the Councillor, you have a duty to let all area residents know that you have a political agenda and their interests are secondary to your goals and ambitions.
Try and be calm and let's avoid the name calling for a change.
Gardens don't create or attract rats any more than any other garbage does. I agree that that underpass was a stupid idea and should never have been built. Filling it in would be a great idea. It may have to anyway with the planned GO expansion on the Barrie line (Jack there is a future topic for you start planning about: a giant wall, a giant ditch, or the complete closure of Wallace). If there are rats, they already exist and probably like the garbage on the tracks at Wallace best.
Keeping an area clean is the first step in reducing mice rats and other critters. I am not picking on Rankin Street ( I have cleaned up garbage all over the area including some in front of my house) but I have noticed on the west side near Wallace there has been a pile of garbage for weeks. That will do more to bring vermin than any vegetable garden will; they love human garbage first. Step one in the battle of the critters is humans dealing with their own waste first. At Perth and Wallace there is an ongoing battle with somebody who leaves bags of garbage on the corner in the middle of the night.
If vermin was an issue why do you find community gardens in almost every community in every town and city? If gardens bring rats why do people have them in their backyards then?
I agree with you that a community garden, if thats what people want, should not be next to a persons house. In fact I think it would work far better if it ran north south along the east side of the park then the new green space would in fact increase the length of the park towards the houses which everybody would like. More green. In terms of people scaling the wall I don't see what the connection is. But if a future garden is put where I said this would not be an issue anyway.
In terms of being dictated to, you yourself posted on this site about the (then) upcoming Community Council meeting about creating more green and therefore where aware of it, had access to the background file and drawings and could have gone to the meeting to have your say or submitted a written letter. The public is allowed to speak and you or others had a chance to go. I have been to many CC meetings myself. Part of having a city government is so that staff can plan and move ahead. If every time a sidewalk was created or a tree planted you had to have the community consult on it then nothing would ever get done. A future garden has not been decided and a meeting has been planned as seen in the mailing that went to every house in this ward. When that meeting happens I will lobby for a garden but I will also lobby to have it in a better spot for the park design.
Lastly, when talking about respecting seniors, do you mean the seniors that started their own community garden a block away on rail land? The ones who would like more space for a proper garden where they can meet others in the community? By young people do you mean the ones from the public schools on Perth that already have field trips to the community garden north of Dupont or the Boys and Girls Club on Ernest who want their own plot near their own homes? Or maybe the youth that one day will be serviced by the new breakfast program which was advised by a poverty expert that community gardens help children learn and can feed them? Its worth noting that you marched in support of Christie Pits and Moss Park last summer, both of which have community gardens serving seniors, and those trying to get a leg up.If you are taking about seniors and youth, possibly at risk youth, then they probably are the ones with the most to gain based on what they say and what we see in other communities.
To this day I still have to field concerns from local residents who were led to believe that the garden in Erwin K. Park was going to be expanded and take over the entire park. In no way was that true. There was never any plan to remove the existing play struture to make the entire park a vegetable garden. It is lies like these and people that are not properly informed that gets the community in an uproar. Where is the discussion?
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First of all people were jumping the wall while the road was paved so I can not see what the arguement for making it green is all about. Second, telling neighbours to help themselves to city property does not help lower the cost of the project. The top soil is in place, the road has been dug up and the new sidewalk has been laid. It looks beautiful!! We should now be looking at what to do with the space. One suggestion I have is to make it a memorial tulip garden for community members who have made a difference in our community. Plaques can be engraved through the Boys and Girls club. It would be a win-win situation. Any other suggestions?
You say to Mr Fava, you don't represent the community, neither do you. Look at your mouth and your own actions, before you point the finger at someone else. Talking about calling the kettle black. I don't know neither of you and don't want too either .
Why all of this beating around the bush??? Mr. Fava, you still need to go away. We all have seen you at your bullying best. Your "taxpayer, ratepayer" routine is lame. If you wish to debate then do so. It just seems that you are never able to during our meetings. You and your equally annoying partner have not earned anyone's respect and therefore will not receive any from this corner.
The fearmongering, crack & rats, is right up your alley.
Mr. Fava please remember, you do not, nor have you ever, represented me or my neighbours.
This is the next great little neighbourhood in the west end before Keele St. Let it grow without the screaming and yelling.
Green Goo,
You ask "How do we create an atmosphere that does not nurture a bully?" I'm sorry but the only OVERT bullying that I see on this page is by Patsy and her "wingnut" comment.
I can understand why many people like the idea of community gardens (personally, I'd like to see one in a park that's close to where I live). But I'm not so self-centred and arrogant as to think that everyone who doesn't agree with me is scum... or that it will be good for the neighborhood regardless of whether people have had a chance to voice their views and concerns.
It's not gardens that build communities... it's our attitude towards our neighbors that build communities. If we are not capable of showing respect and consideration to those we agree with as well as those we disagree with (and God knows I don't always agree with Jack), we are not building community. Those who champion green spaces or community gardens while telling their neighbors to "crawl under a rock" are not building community... they are preventing community from taking place.
But rather than call Patsy out on her vitriol, you actually defend her and go on to label the object of her scorn, Jack, as the bully. Hmmm. GreenGoo, in case the irony is lost on you, your comment is a perfect example of nurturing the bully (Patsy) -- whereby those on the sidelines join in against someone who has been targeted for social ostracism. It's classic schoolyard behaviour as any teacher knows.
So, to get back to your question about "How do we create an atmosphere that does not nurture a bully?" my suggestion is that you can start by not nurturing bullies who tell others to go crawl under a rock. That doesn't mean you have to agree with Jack or others, but telling people to crawl under a rock (or condoning such statements) is not appropriate.
It's funny how this went from residents wanting consulation as promised by Adam, to been a Tory thing. I think the family living next door to the dead end should and deserves a say to what is happening in their back yard, they are however tax payers, like many others. Many of us are laughing at the Toronto Sun article, I don't think any one at the park that day, when the Sun reporter was their, including our young people, a group of four 15 years olds, that you call trash, really care about Tory verses NDP. I myself, if you really want to know, supported the Green party the last federal election, not the Conservative, like many others in ward 18 done . But fuzzy( Kevin) decided it was good strategy to start this rumor, to me I think it was funny. Kevin wasn't even man enough to say he was from the Fuzzy group, instead he said he was with some Junction Triangle group. Many of us trash as you call us, come from country's who lived off the land by hunting, fishing,growing our own vegetables to survive, remember lot of them were kids from the second war and knew about surviving. My mother who is in her late 70's still grows her own garden every year since coming from europe in the 60's. So many of us do know about gardens, more then some of you.
Still some of us think a community garden in this certain location is not a good idea. Reasons:
1) Rats coming from the rail tracks and the under the rail path which is now closed,will become a problem. Many residents living on Rankin have experienced and still experiencing rat problems.
2) The garden is to close to the residence.
3) People are still scaling the wall who cross the track when coming from the otherside, will just attrack unwanted vistors.
4) Maybe grass, trees and scrubs will be a better choice then a garden
As ratepayers/taxpayers we have the right to our opinions and we don't needed to be dictated to. I don't care if you don't have respect for me, but al least have respect for the seniors and young people who are sharing their opinions. I don't think calling someone trash,when you don't even know them is really fair.
I agree with Kristen both that extending the park is a good idea and on the importance of individuals representing themselves. I think a garden would be a great use of the space. The Wingnut note seemed a little over the top until I found the Sun article. I think the frustration is understandable. Oddly, given that he doesn't seem to make much sense, Fava might do better in a neighbourhood of crackheads. Them and journalists with tight deadlines who are unencumbered by an overexposure to, um, skule. With the Sun printing his hyperbole of rats and crackheads being attracted to a park I guess he's batting 500. I don't think it's a matter of left or right, this is a special case.
There is a matter of community discussions. People need to feel free represent themselves in an atmosphere accepting of contrary opinions and free of bullying. For that to work, the lubricant of creativity and social interaction become very important. People need to like each other enough to do the work of trying to understand things they don't at first agree with. I guess the question I am working around is this: How do we create an atmosphere that does not nurture a bully.